GCSEs scrapped

[Mikinton]

Exactly Noah! My daughter S in normal primary school is struggling, she's miles behind and to be honest, just doesn't get it. She is getting no help so looks like i got to do the whole pushing business for it again. My other daughter A who, when the education get off their backside and find her a school, will hopefully be at special school is doing better than S is but if she can only take academic exams when she is older will probably leave school with nothing.
G

Unfortunately the country can't afford the pupil/teacher ratio that your children require, and one result of the 'inclusion' policy is presumably fewer special schools. And, at the end of the day, the parents are as important to a child's education as their schools - just think how much time you spend with them compared with teachers.

 

[Gadget]

Unfortunately the country can't afford the pupil/teacher ratio that your children require, and one result of the 'inclusion' policy is presumably fewer special schools. And, at the end of the day, the parents are as important to a child's education as their schools - just think how much time you spend with them compared with teachers.

At the moment i spend 24/7 with A. I do the best i can but i'm not a school teacher.
I can teach right from wrong, manners and other life skills, i can pass on my own knowledge best i can but this is not the education that they have in schools.
A is autistic, just getting her attention is hard enough. S spends all day at school which she finds hard enough, last thing she wants when she comes home is for me to turn ''teacher'' I help with homework, i listen to her read, we watch and talk about educational stuff on tv. I know my limits and i'm already operating beyond them, pretending i can do any more than that won't do anyone any good.
My girls will never be academic stars even if they had the best teacher in the world 24 hrs a day. What i'm trying to say, is not that they aren't being educated properly, i believe they are getting the best their schools can do (or will be when they find one for A), but that if the government makes the only qualifications available from school academic ones then thousands of children will not cope and will leave with either very poor or no qualifications at all.

 

[tek-monkey]

Gadget, this isn't aimed at you, just in response to Mikinton.

What if the parents are, shall we say, thick? They can only impart the knowledge they have, and if they have little (or are dossers themselves) what chance does the kid have?

EDIT: Do'h! Wrote that and didn't hit reply, so hadn't seen gadgets post.

 

[Mikinton]

I'm not suggesting that parents become teachers; I'm just suggesting that they do simple things that enhance their children's learning, that will, in the long run, help with their formal education at school. Some suggestions ...

Talk to your children (yeah, I know .... those text messages don't answer themselves .... and someone has to keep Jeremy Kyle's viewing figures up otherwise they'll be replacing him with a programme about the Australian immigration service.) Converse with them, ask them questions, challenge their ideas, take an interest in them. Read with them, take them to the library (you'd be amazed how few children I see in the library). Don't overdo it, but get them into the habit of thinking and learning. None of this requires any special knowledge on the part of the parent; it's a question of commitment.

It's unfortunate that a lot of parents see schools as being the sole deliverer of 'education' as if it's nothing to do with them.

Regarding secondary education, I would struggle to think of anything I was taught that, in itself, became of any use. Quadratic equations? I was OK at those but have never used them in the 40 years since. Secondary education is all about teaching a child how to learn, as opposed to actually imparting knowledge. Any knowledge that does become useful, does so when the pupil moves on to university or does training with their employer. (My 'O' level French might be an exception.)

Anyway, please forgive the rant above ..... it's not aimed at anyone in particular - it's just the way I see things.

And picking up one of Noah's points, a lot of low achieving children are lazy - it's just that parents don't acknowledge it and think they know better than teachers.

 

[Mikinton]

I've just come in at the tail end of an item on Radio 5, and it sounds like Gove is backtracking on 'CSEs', saying something like slower pupils could take their 'O' levels a year later (which I believe they did in my day).

One solution to the whole problem (and teachers might agree with this) would be to hold primary children back a year if they didn't acheive a certain level of attainment in English or Maths. (Do they do this in the States? - I'm sure I've seen a teenage Bart Simpson in a class of 9-year-olds.) Sadly, I can't see it happening; headmasters would end up spending all their time pacifying parents.

 

[shoes]

I don't think it matters how we measure educational success as long as we keep teaching irrelevant and tedious lessons.

 

[United57]

I've just come in at the tail end of an item on Radio 5, and it sounds like Gove is backtracking on 'CSEs', saying something like slower pupils could take their 'O' levels a year later (which I believe they did in my day).

One solution to the whole problem (and teachers might agree with this) would be to hold primary children back a year if they didn't acheive a certain level of attainment in English or Maths. (Do they do this in the States? - I'm sure I've seen a teenage Bart Simpson in a class of 9-year-olds.) Sadly, I can't see it happening; headmasters would end up spending all their time pacifying parents.

Actually thats not a bad idea and for some children born July August it can certainly work

 

[Jenksie]

I think he thinks he needs to be able to show that he's doing something, even if it's crap. Doing nothing is not an option.

I think what Gove is doing here is making his first fumbled attempt at a leadership challenge. Cameron and Osbourne are losing it. Why not tell your colleagues of such an emotive plan? Not even the education Secretary?

Pondering the actual nub of the issue:
What is this obsession - only applicable to Politicians and misguided parents- with 'Raising Standards'. I'm happy to maintain the standards I achieved 30 years ago with regard to literacy and maths. I don't see many with higher standards than me who are not professional writers. I seem to cope with Novels, Newspapers, Leaflets and even the internet.
My offspring does too. Education is not the same as 'Instruction' or 'Training'.

 

[zebidee]

At the moment i spend 24/7 with A. I do the best i can but i'm not a school teacher... I know my limits and i'm already operating beyond them, pretending i can do any more than that won't do anyone any good.

I'm sure you're doing fantastic Gadget, don't get hung up on what your limits are, you might surprise yourself Learning together through conversation is one of the most powerful educational styles, with proven higher retention of knowledge than traditional schooling. Best of luck x

 

[Noah]

Exactly Noah! My daughter S in normal primary school is struggling, she's miles behind and to be honest, just doesn't get it. She is getting no help so looks like i got to do the whole pushing business for it again. My other daughter A who, when the education get off their backside and find her a school, will hopefully be at special school is doing better than S is but if she can only take academic exams when she is older will probably leave school with nothing.
G

The bad news is that I think you are right, you will have to do a great deal of pushing, and keep on doing it. Try talking to headmasters of other schools to see what they are prepared to do, and shift your daughters to the one that comes up best.

My stepdaughter is severely dyslexic but with a lot of hassle got the right help and ended up with an education degree. Wants to be a special needs teacher to put back into the system what she got out of it and is currently a special needs teaching assistant in a secondary school. Often working one to one with kids which is what really works, but rarely available in primary school.

Its when you get a 15 year old kid who can't read or write and after a couple of months with the right help he is so proud of he fact that he is coping with words with five letters in them, and you wonder what he could have achieved if he'd had that help at 5. Quite often it is the parents who need as much help as the children but some of them resent it, if it is offered, and most often it isn't.

Don't know what your daughters' problem is, if it is dyslexia then have a poke around these sites -

www.bdadyslexia.org.uk

www.dyslexia.uk.net/

www.dyslexiaaction.org.uk/

they might have something helpful on them

 

[John Marwood]

The scrapping of Log Books is the point when it all went wrong

I Arithmetically Mean that

 

[Gadget]

Thanks Noah, it's not dyslexia it a developmental delay and other learning difficulties, she can be emotionally a toddler etc.
Still no school for A I'm resigned that it won't be allocated untill September now. The education actually came around in the week wanting to know if i'd put the kids in school yet. It beggars belief thyat they don't check their records before making such visits. I was not impressed.

 

[Kingy]

According to Mr Gove now teachers will be allowed to exercise "extreme freedom" over what is taught in secondary schools.

 

[tek-monkey]

LMFAO, if it wasn't for the fact an entire generation will be dumbed down it'd be funny. Extreme freedom in teaching to me says do what you want and we'll still pay you per kid you get in.

 

[tek-monkey]

10% less uni applications in England this year too, the rest of the UK had a much smaller drop but they charge less I believe?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/university-applications-down-8-9-100559612.html

Anyone suprised? Having a permanent wage tax because you did a degree in egyptology suddenly doesn't seem so appealing I guess.

 

[Mikinton]

10% less uni applications in England this year too, the rest of the UK had a much smaller drop but they charge less I believe?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/university-applications-down-8-9-100559612.html

Anyone suprised? Having a permanent wage tax because you did a degree in egyptology suddenly doesn't seem so appealing I guess.

It rather depends on whether you ever intend to pay off the loan.

My daughter went to a Uni in a less affluent area of the country and reckoned that a disconcerting number of those on her course either never had intentions of regular employment or would never be paid enough to exceed the threshhold which would require them to pay some of their student loan back. Many went from course to course, flunking in one year and signing up for another the next, with the college willing to take their money.

It would be interesting to know the government's expectations of student loans ever being repaid. They might be in for a nasty shock. Mmmm ..... I feel an FOI request coming on.

 

[tek-monkey]

I thought the new loans system was designed not to be paid back, but instead accrued interest based on your wages?

 

[Kingy]

It appears that teaching qualifications are also being scrapped now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

 

[zebidee]

I doubt that will be a 'cost cutting measure' if they really intend to hire highly skilled professionals? Though I suppose it saves on training costs and bursaries Sounds like sink-or-swim on the job training. Perhaps learning-by-doing will have a good effect and produce creative and enthusiastic teachers, not bogged down by schemas and paradigms?

 

[Withnail]

Also, and rather crucially, it will produce teachers less likely to be unionised. I wonder how many

great linguists, computer scientists and other specialists...

will be tempted by a teaching wage? Isn't this more likely to result in second-rate linguists etc being hired because they can be paid less?

You just have to love that Gove.