Have we lost control of our nation by entering the European Union?

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

"Anyways the Police seem to think there is an Eastern European gang going around as 7 properties a day are getting done in Stafford"

I think this gets to the heart of the issue. I'm probably going to come across all Daily Mail / UKIP but I do believe that by being in the European Union we have totally lost control of our National borders. This simply cannot continue. Of course we should be a friend to other European Nations, trade with Europe and have close links but none of us signed up for this political project -no one has ever been asked.

I'm not excusing burglary, far from it but I do think that as a Nation we are bringing problems on ourselves. Of course those who live in poorer Countries are going to want to come here - but our social structures, housing, schools, health care etc simply cannot cope -we now have rich London Boroughs who want to move poor and homeless people to areas like Stoke-on-Trent - as if these areas haven't got enough problems.
Added to which of course the Police are suffering from huge cuts in budgets which probably means that those who indulge in such crimes will probably get off scott free or at worst get a few hours cleaning dog poo up

We simply must start to control our borders again and put an end to this ludicrous EU free movement. We must also be allowed to deport people and their families back to their home Countries (with no option of return) if they are found to have committed these sorts of crimes



Admin Edit: Posts moved to their own thread.

 

[tek-monkey]

I have to admit I'd agree with a jail time = deportation system for all 'economic migrants', I can't see a problem with it for their first 5 years of residency at least. After that roots are put down, and TBH this is more their home than the one they left behind so then I'd only want it for serious crimes against other people.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

I have to admit I'd agree with a jail time = deportation system for all 'economic migrants', I can't see a problem with it for their first 5 years of residency at least. After that roots are put down, and TBH this is more their home than the one they left behind so then I'd only want it for serious crimes against other people.

Sorry but I can't agree, they should have thought about the effect it would have on them and their families before they indulge in a life of crime to the detriment of others.
Same goes for laws associated with those terrible situations whereby people have confronted burgulars in their homes. If I caught someone in my house I would think twice about smashing him to bits with the nearest thing I can lay my hands on to protect my family and my home - it is wrong that I would probably end up in prison for doing so. If burgulars felt as if what they were doing presented more of a risk than it does i.e having a saucepan through the skull or having them and their familes deported then perhaps they would think twice as to whether it was really worth it....

 

[tek-monkey]

How long does someone live somewhere before they are naturalised though? There is a point where the country they reside in becomes their home, and at that point they should be treated no differently to others. I suppose we could work on citizenship, whereby once you've been here a while you apply to become a local perhaps?

I'd say all crimes against a person should still carry a deportation order (murder, rape, aggravated assualt and yes, burglary as it is stealing from a person). I don't think being caught smoking weed or drinking in the street should carry a deportation order though.

I wouldn't think twice about stabbing a burglar, even in the back as he tried to run, because in my eyes they have it coming. Its effectively suicide rather than murder, as they chose to put themselves in a position where harm was likely to come to them. I also wouldn't think about telling the police, because as you say that way lies trouble.

 

[Trumpet]

How long does someone live somewhere before they are naturalised though? There is a point where the country they reside in becomes their home, and at that point they should be treated no differently to others. I suppose we could work on citizenship, whereby once you've been here a while you apply to become a local perhaps?

Having recently emigrated to Eccleshall I'm reliably informed it takes about 20 years!

 

[Hetairoi]

I have lived abroad for over five years and didn't consider it home and have lived in the Stafford area for around fifteen years and still don't count myself as a local.

I think you have to be born and bred in an area to count as a local!

The EU has changed so much since we joined that I don't think anyone, including Ted Heath, would have voted to stay in the EU in 1975 if they could have foreseen how it would turn out.

Whilst we are still members of the EU we can not have effective controlof our borders which means we will be flooded with migrant workers from whichever new country joins the EU until our standard of living is the same or lower than theirs

I don't blame the migrant workers for trying to make a better life for themselves I blame the politicians for allowing it to happen.

 

[tek-monkey]

Well we voted for them!

 

[Miss Red]

Sorry but I can't agree, they should have thought about the effect it would have on them and their families before they indulge in a life of crime to the detriment of others.
Same goes for laws associated with those terrible situations whereby people have confronted burgulars in their homes. If I caught someone in my house I would think twice about smashing him to bits with the nearest thing I can lay my hands on to protect my family and my home - it is wrong that I would probably end up in prison for doing so. If burgulars felt as if what they were doing presented more of a risk than it does i.e having a saucepan through the skull or having them and their familes deported then perhaps they would think twice as to whether it was really worth it....

Im with you on this one.........and yep its all down to european quotas and human rights rules...I think if you mess up when you here you should be deported, if i messed up in another country id be shackled and left to rot at the very least....but i wouldnt, because i respect people and the country i in.

 

[henryscat]

Well we voted for them!

The majority of people did not vote for the current government....

 

[Gramaisc]

The majority of people did not vote for the current government....

The majority of people that did bother to vote in the referendum voted to keep the system that produced the government that we have now.

 

[tek-monkey]

Exactly, more people either want it or dont care than those against. Thats democracy, no matter how odd you find the decisions. I think its crap too, but was outvoted.

 

[andy w]

The majority of people did not vote for the current government....

To be pedantic, if you added the tory and lib dem votes togeather you would find it a majority of those who voted

 

[tek-monkey]

Was their total votes over 50%, or just their number of seats won?

 

[Gramaisc]

Con - 10,703,654

Lib - 6,836,248

Lab - 8,606,517

So, pretty well 2:1, not counting the little guys, Nationalists, Greens, etc..

 

[andy w]

The UK have only allowed one referendum on Europe back in the 70s and that was whether to stay in the common market or not.Since then the EEC has morphed into the EU with a much wider remit and in many areas became more powerful than individual governments.
The Euro is part of the european bandwagon to political and economic union and thankfully Gordon Brown kept us out and increasingly the people of Europe are realising how their leaders have stitched them up in a straight jacket.
What annoys me is how the home office back in 2002 estimated only around 15,000 a year eastern europeans would come into the UK when the EU was expanding eastwards and decided not to put restrictions on numbers coming in which other countries did.
Yes there has been positives from the influx of people but working class people have suffered with increased compitition for jobs,wages have been surpressed and the cost of houses and rents wouldn't have risen so high,

 

[tek-monkey]

There you go then, no matter how idiotic the policies may seem they are those of the parties the majority wanted. I still feel its a bit of a wrong lizard situation, but even when given a chance to change it we chose not to. Not sure what that says about us TBH.

 

[70-plus]

Thatcher signed up to the free movement of people, goods etc. This meant that it was easy for English people to move to France, Spain and other European countries. The English are of course immigrants in European countries buying up the houses, etc. The problem of open borders came when Communism collapsed in Europe and poverty-stricken Eastern Europeans looked for a better life with work. No-one realised just how many would want to come. They will go back when their own countries are wealthier - except that will take a long time. Immigrants from our ex-colonial countries came because they were asked to come in the first place and then to find work. Everyone wants the good life wherever that might be!

 

[Wolfenrook]

It gets me how these days the finger gets pointed at Eastern Europeans all of the time. It's just yet another form of racism. In the 70s the finger got pointed at black people, these days though that's seen as a serious no no, so they point the finger at caucasion immigrants.

We've always had more than enought scrags of our own! The times I've heard the police blame robberies on people from Liverpool using the M6 corridor to dash down, commit crimes, then dash back up. Criminals are criminals, whatever their nationality of origin.

That said, I do agree that there should be a period where if you are convicted of a criminal offense you should be deported back to your country of origin, and at the same time I reckon other countries should adopt the same model. I also believe that the EU should NOT take on the roll that they are doing. They should have NOTHING to do with setting laws for member countries, these should be down to those member countries. A perfect example been the current moves towards an EU wide legislation covering the trade and keeping of "alien invasive species". Legislation that if handled wrongly could lead to species not at all invasive here in the UK been banned because they are invasive in much warmer parts of the EU, or worst still species been banned purely because they haven't been allowed! This isn't just animals either, this is ALL species, including plants!

The EU should be STRICTLY concerned with open trade, and keep it's nose out of legislation like this.

As to voting for them, I gave up voting the election before last when the general election in the constituency I was living in was cancelled until AFTER it was all over and done with, all because the tory candidate died.. The 2nd one there was that fiasco with people been turned away due to massive queues... So they can't even claim that the majority came close, given the number of people who got turned away before they could actually vote...

Democracy my backside.

Ade

 

[Hetairoi]

It gets me how these days the finger gets pointed at Eastern Europeans all of the time. It's just yet another form of racism. In the 70s the finger got pointed at black people, these days though that's seen as a serious no no, so they point the finger at caucasion immigrants.

We've always had more than enought scrags of our own! The times I've heard the police blame robberies on people from Liverpool using the M6 corridor to dash down, commit crimes, then dash back up. Criminals are criminals, whatever their nationality of origin.

That said, I do agree that there should be a period where if you are convicted of a criminal offense you should be deported back to your country of origin, and at the same time I reckon other countries should adopt the same model. I also believe that the EU should NOT take on the roll that they are doing. They should have NOTHING to do with setting laws for member countries, these should be down to those member countries. A perfect example been the current moves towards an EU wide legislation covering the trade and keeping of "alien invasive species". Legislation that if handled wrongly could lead to species not at all invasive here in the UK been banned because they are invasive in much warmer parts of the EU, or worst still species been banned purely because they haven't been allowed! This isn't just animals either, this is ALL species, including plants!

The EU should be STRICTLY concerned with open trade, and keep it's nose out of legislation like this.

As to voting for them, I gave up voting the election before last when the general election in the constituency I was living in was cancelled until AFTER it was all over and done with, all because the tory candidate died.. The 2nd one there was that fiasco with people been turned away due to massive queues... So they can't even claim that the majority came close, given the number of people who got turned away before they could actually vote...

Democracy my backside.

Ade

This is a major problem in this country, as soon as anyone mentions an ethnic minority they are called a racist!

Because people are scared of being a racist they won't even discuss the subject and concern turns to frustration which can lead to hate and then they really do become a racist so this inability to even talk about the effects of immigration is counter productive.

As for alien species there are a lot of alien species that really do need eradicating like Signal Crayfish, Mink, Grey Squirrels and Japanese Knotweed however there are some that do no harm, each should be judged it's merits.

 

[AA Silencers]

Surely it's the actions that should be judged rather than their race. Racism is only racism when you treat people differently because of their race. I personally don't care what colour or ethnic origin a criminal is, I want them removed from society in the most efficient way. That should be done equally by the best means for society, incurring the smallest financial impact on the members of society.