Planning and traffic in Stafford.... terrible?

[henryscat]

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, the poor road system has got something to do with it.

Example: Lichfield Road. Three sets of traffic lights within about 300 yards near the Hough development. It can cause chaos at times. Whoever thought of that obviously doesn't use the road.

Turning the question round a little bit.... If you were a transport planner and presented with the scenario of The Hough is going in, regardless of how bonkers you may think the traffic impact is - what would you have done differently to manage traffic at the surrounding junctions?

One thing the changes did do, is get rid of the right turn into Riverway which has an advantage for traffic coming into town because that queue now gets stored off the main road. Coming out of town it is probably less ideal.

Town planning has a huge impact for transport, but sadly the way the planning system currently works isn't conducive to good transport planning - I'm not sure it is fair to blame transport planners for that! The government have recently revised planning guidance so that there is a presumption in favour of the developer.

 

[henryscat]

It easy to say we must build our way out of problems but all planning must take the effect on the floodplain as its main critera.

Don't think that's been taken into account for the new Morrisons development.....

 

[henryscat]

Utter nonsense

Imagine a mile long goods train setting off ,couplings loose

Unfitted freight, isn't it, jumpers for goal posts etc.

Interesting analogy though, scary things unfitted freight trains are (I've driven a short one and that was plenty for me). Careful driving is the key, you can't keep braking then accelerating, nice steady speed, no harsh acceleration, careful braking - otherwise you get thrown all over the place and spill your tea. People could do with applying the same principle in traffic...

 

[henryscat]

I've spent many an hour over several years waiting for a bus on the Lichfield Road, and reckon that one of the main causes of congestion are drivers (usually on their mobile phone) who don't close up to the car in front. They presumably would argue that that the space they take up on the road is the distance between their front and back bumpers, and not the distance between their back bumper and the back bumper of the vehicle in front of them.

Junctions can reach capacity before the road itself does though...

It isn't desirable for everyone to drive up each others backside as that's when accidents happen.

 

[Confused]

Junctions can reach capacity before the road itself does though...

It isn't desirable for everyone to drive up each others backside as that's when accidents happen.

True, but neither is leaving a 50 yard gap between cars good for road capacity either.

 

[Mikinton]

Junctions can reach capacity before the road itself does though...

It isn't desirable for everyone to drive up each others backside as that's when accidents happen.

Apologies ..... I should have said I meant stationary traffic.

Quite often you'd see cars that were in the line of traffic heading out of town on Lichfield Road waiting on red at the Riverway lights, only for several of them to edge right into the filter lane for the Hough. Guaranteed while some drivers would edge forward and fill up the gaps these left, there'd be someone on their mobile phone with 3 or 4 car lengths between them or the car in front (meaning that there'd be 2 or 3 more cars than there need be going round the island roundabout instead of being on Lichfield Road).

 

[gilbert grape]

Don't think that's been taken into account for the new Morrisons development.....

To be specific, I dont think flooding should be the primary concern with the Morrisons part of this plan as it is further from the river and has taken into account leaving the nature reserve untouched at the back end of the site so that stays as flood plain. The M&S store, on the other hand, does have an effect if it's a solid structure. I raised this at the consulktation along with my concerns about the traffic buiild up and, they told me that the design of M&S meant there would be low level parking and slats in the shuttering to let water in and out if it flooded and the bays would have a gradiant so water would drain back out.

 

[Jonah]

Turning the question round a little bit.... If you were a transport planner and presented with the scenario of The Hough is going in, regardless of how bonkers you may think the traffic impact is - what would you have done differently to manage traffic at the surrounding junctions?

One thing the changes did do, is get rid of the right turn into Riverway which has an advantage for traffic coming into town because that queue now gets stored off the main road. Coming out of town it is probably less ideal.

Town planning has a huge impact for transport, but sadly the way the planning system currently works isn't conducive to good transport planning - I'm not sure it is fair to blame transport planners for that! The government have recently revised planning guidance so that there is a presumption in favour of the developer.

As you say, the right turn traffic is now stored on the new bit of road. So much so that sometimes I have queued from just by the B&Q entrance to turn into Riverway and taken 10 minutes to get onto the road.

The one thing I would have done differently is not to put the middle set of traffic lights in. I think this set of lights causes a lot of problems. Traffic coming out of the Hough would have to go to the traffic lights at the Riverway junction. This would, of course, increase the traffic at that junction but obviously the lights and junction would have needed to be seriously upgraded somehow. But as I'm not a traffic planner or highways engineer I don't know how that would be done.

The Riverway junction and lights need upgrading anyway in my opinion.

 

[henryscat]

As you say, the right turn traffic is now stored on the new bit of road. So much so that sometimes I have queued from just by the B&Q entrance to turn into Riverway and taken 10 minutes to get onto the road.

The one thing I would have done differently is not to put the middle set of traffic lights in. I think this set of lights causes a lot of problems. Traffic coming out of the Hough would have to go to the traffic lights at the Riverway junction. This would, of course, increase the traffic at that junction but obviously the lights and junction would have needed to be seriously upgraded somehow. But as I'm not a traffic planner or highways engineer I don't know how that would be done.

The Riverway junction and lights need upgrading anyway in my opinion.

Getting traffic into the Hough seems to work a lot better than getting it out again. Ultimately as with any set of roads / junctions, there is only so much you can do and then it comes down to the volume of traffic being generated being the problem rather than the roads themselves. But The Hough isn't going to move now its there...

The St Leonards lights could probably come out, but if they did, not sure that you'd want traffic emerging from the Hough. If that happened you'd need to allow a right turn onto Lichfield Road at the Riverway lights. For that to work effectively, the approach would need to be widened for a separate right turn lane (Lloyds would have to give up some car park!). In turn that would probably affect the timing at those lights, which may be a problem with holding Lichfield Road at red for longer when everything is backed up to the gyratory.

My suggestion would be that St Leonards / Queensville Avenue should be blocked as a through route to Fairway to get rid of the rat run. All traffic would then have to come down Riverway and this would give greater control over the flow on Lichfield Road. That may give the option to remove or revise the St Leonards lights. Ultimately though, all this may do is get you to the queue for Silkmore Lane roundabout a bit quicker.

Another suggestion (not mine) that is a bit more radical is that Riverway is made one way such that there's a big loop Riverway > Lammascote > Queensway > Lichfield Road in some way. Idea being that you could simplify junctions, so although cars may have to go a longer way round, it might create a little extra capacity.

Notwithstanding all of that, what we really need is less people in cars!!!

 

[gilbert grape]

My suggestion would be that St Leonards / Queensville Avenue should be blocked as a through route to Fairway to get rid of the rat run. All traffic would then have to come down Riverway and this would give greater control over the flow on Lichfield Road. That may give the option to remove or revise the St Leonards lights. Ultimately though, all this may do is get you to the queue for Silkmore Lane roundabout a bit quicker.
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more blah blah
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Notwithstanding all of that, what we really need is less people in cars!!!

Obviously coming from somebody who doesn't work in that area and needs access.
So if this system is in place, what happens if there's an accident on Fairway or Riverway floods? Purely blaming the amount of cars on the road is quite lame, to be frank. Or would you just like less jobs at St Leonards so theres less people?

What's needed is more joined up thinking and forward thinking at the planning stage and maybe channel some funds into contingency routes and improvements. Maybe factor in road improvements with room for improved or increased bus stops for future shuttle services?

 

[The Hawk]

Avoid right turns across oncoming traffic.

Create a clockwise one way "ring" road (Newport Road, Station Road, Broad Eye, Chell Road, Gaol Square, Queensway etc.), filter in from the left, turn off to the left and limited access points into the town centre. Then you can remove virtually all the junction traffic lights. Simple.

 

[henryscat]

Obviously coming from somebody who doesn't work in that area and needs access.

If we based planning on the premise that it can only be carried out by a person living in the area then nothing would get done....

So if this system is in place, what happens if there's an accident on Fairway or Riverway floods? Purely blaming the amount of cars on the road is quite lame, to be frank. Or would you just like less jobs at St Leonards so theres less people?

The same as most other roads.

Nope, what I've suggested is that St Leonards is made a no-through route. It isn't an ideal place to have a big factory generating a lot of traffic, but it is there. Much of the traffic is rat running and nothing to do with Areva in any case, and it would be preferable to re-route this onto main roads.

What's needed is more joined up thinking and forward thinking at the planning stage and maybe channel some funds into contingency routes and improvements. Maybe factor in road improvements with room for improved or increased bus stops for future shuttle services?

In the case of Stafford the "planning stage" has already happened for much of what is being discussed. In some cases the planning stage was decades to centuries ago. Clearly for future development plans there could be an opportunity for more sensible planning, however the likelihood is that this will be precluded by the planning system where the developer is king.

 

[cj1]

Don’t think blocking "rat runs" is the answer all that does is increases traffic on main roads and reduce capacity of Stafford road transport network. I don’t believe Stafford has a road capacity problem. I believe the majority of the queue is caused by drivers not loading the road system evenly. I believe the answer to this is technology as more drivers use sat nav with traffic avoidance software the less drivers will join the queue as they will be guided via a different route giving themselves a congestion free alternative there by reducing the queues and travel time for all

 

[henryscat]

Don’t think blocking "rat runs" is the answer all that does is increases traffic on main roads and reduce capacity of Stafford road transport network.

There's a couple of reasons for reducing rat running - first is to take traffic off residential streets that were never intended for high volumes of traffic, the second is to give greater control over the network which can potentially improve traffic flow. Flow on the main roads is a function of capacity at junctions. If a lot of rat running traffic is emerging at a particular point then that junction acts as one of the constraints on flow. For instance, high volumes of rat runners emerging from Queensville Avenue onto Lichfield Road interrupt the flow, particularly as a lot of them are let out by drivers on the main road. Continuing the example, if St Leonards was no-through, then all of that traffic would re-route - mostly onto Riverway where it is controlled by traffic signals.

I don’t believe Stafford has a road capacity problem. I believe the majority of the queue is caused by drivers not loading the road system evenly.

That's essentially the case across the country. The road network has more than enough capacity across the day, the issue is peak hours where demand currently outstrips supply. Spreading the peak out and encouraging modal shift would significantly reduce congestion. This could be achieved through variable road pricing.

I believe the answer to this is technology as more drivers use sat nav with traffic avoidance software the less drivers will join the queue as they will be guided via a different route giving themselves a congestion free alternative there by reducing the queues and travel time for all

Sat nav technology in that application wouldn't do a great deal to reduce peak time congestion, because pretty much all routes are operating at capacity during those times. If the technology was applied into variable road pricing, where the driver pays per mile according to the time of day and how congested the road is, then people would begin to make journeys at different times and others make them by other means or not at all.

 

[cj1]

main routes a449 a518 a34 to name a few do tend to run at capacity at peak times but the more minor roads surrounding them tend to be congestion free i use a tomtom in my car with hd traffic information and can say it is a good traffic beater i have seen parts of Stafford I never thought existed

 

[Mikinton]

As HenrysCat says, the one solution that solves all problems on the road network during the rush hour wherever those problems may be, is to reduce traffic during the rush hour. Sure, people who use their vehicles for work will need access to the town centre during the day, but people who insist on having the freedom to drive in to town when they like (but always during the morning rush hour), leave their car on the car park all day and then have the freedom to drive home when they like (but always during the evening rush hour) are the ones who should be targeted and encouraged to take public transport. Maybe charge £5 for every car in the council car park at 10:30am and another £5 for every one in there at 4:00pm (and £8 for the whole day).

 

[cj1]

reducing traffic congestion by charging will only work if it prices people off the road these sort of measures will hit the poor with a job hardest. My solution does not price anybody off the road it just uses the existing road capacity in the most efficient way possible.

 

[henryscat]

reducing traffic congestion by charging will only work if it prices people off the road these sort of measures will hit the poor with a job hardest. My solution does not price anybody off the road it just uses the existing road capacity in the most efficient way possible.

In general, the households with the lowest incomes don't have a car at all. Everybody goes on about how wonderful it is that the 3p increase in fuel duty hasn't happened, ignoring the fact that bus operators have been clobbered with what is effectively a whopping increase in fuel duty resulting in significant fare increases for bus passengers who can least afford it.

As regards using spare road capacity, your suggested solution redistributes people spatially but not temporally - the latter is the most important in terms of using road capacity effectively. In pure economic terms, congestion occurs because demand for road space outstrips supply and price has not responded to deal with it.

 

[gilbert grape]

ALSTOM currently do their bit for congestion at peak times as we have flexi-time across all divisions, as far as I'm aware, so we have people arriving between maybe 6.30 am and 9.30am and leaving between maybe 3.15pm and 6.00pm, this meaning the peak surge from both sites is reduced way beyond what it used to be. I stand by my view that we need to divert through traffic away from our town centre roads to improve how we run this town.

 

[cj1]

My solution temporarily redistributes traffic given the current traffic situation if road "A" becomes congested people can be rerouted to their destination via road B C or D allowing the congestion to clear on road A. they get to their destination faster by missing the congestion. The congestion clears much quicker as less people are now joining the queues