Student loans and student finance - Advice wanted

[Jade-clothing]

Hi all
Really need some advice about something.
My daughter is supposed to be going to University in London in a few weeks and we have just been told by student finance that they need some more financial information from us.
Basically when she applied for finance I was single so we applied with my financial information for the year in question but since then I have moved in with my partner and Student finance have only just seen fit to tell us they need his financial information now!
my partner earns too much for my daughter to get the full loan and grant but she can't afford to go to uni without the full loan.
I've only lived with him a few months and my daughter has NEVER lived with us and he has never provided for her so I find it totally unfair that they want to take his earnings into cconsideration.
I've just come off the phone to them and I've basically told them Its unfair and I am intending to end my relationship and move out - I feel that strongly about her going to uni.
They have said if I do so and can prove I am now single that they can still sort her finances out in time but is it really fair that this is how they sort out the loans in the first place!
I'm absolutely fuming and would welcome any advice and am also wondering if anyone else has been in this situation.

 

[hop]

Leaving your partner is a drastic action.

How old is he ? How large is his pension pot ? If he were to make a significant pension contribution and even back date this for several years he should be able reduce his income to nothing.

This would enable your daughter to receieve the full amount.

I believe you can back date contributions upto 3 years. So if he failed to use his full allowance in the past 3 years now might be a good time to make up for it.

 

[Mikinton]

Don't worry. I'm sure your relationship with your new partner is such that he'll be more than happy to make up the difference so that your daughter can go to college.

 

[Jade-clothing]

Leaving your partner is a drastic action.

How old is he ? How large is his pension pot ? If he were to make a significant pension contribution and even back date this for several years he should be able reduce his income to nothing.

This would enable your daughter to receieve the full amount.

I believe you can back date contributions upto 3 years. So if he failed to use his full allowance in the past 3 years now might be a good time to make up for it.

Hi Hop
Thanks for the advice - my partner is 46 but he isnt in a position to make a pension contribution at the moment - he pays out a good lot of money each month in mortgage, car loan and maintenance for his own kids and besides why should he make a sacrifice for my daughter who at 19 is an adult and has been living on her own and working for almost a year!
She has never lived with my partner and barely knows him and also for the year in question that they take into account to work out the student finance - 2010 - 2011 - neither I nor my daughter even knew him at all!
It seems a ridiculous system to me.

 

[Jade-clothing]

Don't worry. I'm sure your relationship with your new partner is such that he'll be more than happy to make up the difference so that your daughter can go to college.

Really??? Why should he? See my reply to Hop above - he provides for his own children - one of whom is also going to uni this year and he is going to be supporting him through university. why should he also support my daughter as well because of the stupid way they work out student finance. He hardly knows her and has never provided for her - in fact he has never provided for me!
We have separate finances.
Student finance do not consider a child an adult until they are 25 which is clearly ridiculous. If she was over 25 she would be counted as an independent adult and can claim on her own wage and would get the full grant and loan.
Students under 25 can only claim as an independent adult if they are married, have a child, their parents are dead or if they have been financially independent for 3 years.
My daughter has been living on her own for 9 months and working 60 hours a week for a year to get some money together to go to uni - and only 5 weeks before she is due to go and despite several phone calls to them asking if they have all the evidence to support our claim they finally decide to ask if I am in a relationship.
For the year in question that they use to work out the finance - 2010 - 2011 I was single so we had assumed they would only use my income. Is it fair after he year of hard work that she may not now be able to go and they expect my new partner to support her?

 

[db]

They have said if I do so and can prove I am now single that they can still sort her finances out in time

how do you prove you're single??

i'm a bit perplexed by the whole scenario.. i mean, i'm engaged to my missus, but when either of us fills out a form we still put down "marrital status" as "single", because the only other options are invariably married/divorced/civil union/etc.. so even though we've been together 7 years and fully intend to get married at some point, have kids, etc, at the moment we are single in the eyes of the law..

how did the student loans company even become aware of your new partner? surely it would have been easier just to not mention them? although i realise that's easy to say in hindsight..

 

[tek-monkey]

The joys of dealing with the government! They don't make sense, they just follow rules blindly. Shame the people making these rules are tools. I'd contact them again and say you were mistaken, for the period in question you were single. If they ask again about current status say it is irrelevant, as they are asking about 2010-2011. Otherwise they are asking for 11-12 data, which they aren't supposed to.

 

[Jade-clothing]

how do you prove you're single??

i'm a bit perplexed by the whole scenario.. i mean, i'm engaged to my missus, but when either of us fills out a form we still put down "marrital status" as "single", because the only other options are invariably married/divorced/civil union/etc.. so even though we've been together 7 years and fully intend to get married at some point, have kids, etc, at the moment we are single in the eyes of the law..

how did the student loans company even become aware of your new partner? surely it would have been easier just to not mention them? although i realise that's easy to say in hindsight..

I sent them my decree absolute - which is also ridiculous since I've been divorced for 6 years and obviously could and have been in relationships since then - but that is all they asked for.
Sorry I didn't mention that part of the fiasco - they also decided last night on the phone that they needed more proof I was single - and asked me to send in a council tax bill for this year showing my single persons discount - which clearly I don't have - so I had to tell them I was in a relationship.

 

[darben]

Jade, you have really been put in an awful situation.

Just a thought, Have you a parent, relative or close friend locally who have a spare room where you could 'lodge' and use as a postal address? Even just rent a cheap bedsit in the short term whilst you get some legal advice. This way you would possibly change the technical requirements for the loan application, and you would be free to carry on your relationship.

Have you gone to the CAB? They may be able to offer sensible advice, likewise you daughter would be wise to approach the student union and the CAB for advice. I think you should also contact your MP for advice and support.

I'm really shocked that student loans are still means tested, I thought the whole change in the system was aimed at making education accessible to all.

 

[Jade-clothing]

The joys of dealing with the government! They don't make sense, they just follow rules blindly. Shame the people making these rules are tools. I'd contact them again and say you were mistaken, for the period in question you were single. If they ask again about current status say it is irrelevant, as they are asking about 2010-2011. Otherwise they are asking for 11-12 data, which they aren't supposed to.

already done that Tek - rang them 6 or 7 times last night - to check this was correct and have checked since online - despite the fact I was single in the year in question they still take my current household circumstances into account. Which as you say is incorrect since they use the data for 2010-11 but this is how they work it out and there is no way around it.

 

[Jade-clothing]

Jade, you have really been put in an awful situation.

Just a thought, Have you a parent, relative or close friend locally who have a spare room where you could 'lodge' and use as a postal address? Even just rent a cheap bedsit in the short term whilst you get some legal advice. This way you would possibly change the technical requirements for the loan application, and you would be free to carry on your relationship.

Have you gone to the CAB? They may be able to offer sensible advice, likewise you daughter would be wise to approach the student union and the CAB for advice. I think you should also contact your MP for advice and support.

I'm really shocked that student loans are still means tested, I thought the whole change in the system was aimed at making education accessible to all.

Yes Darben - we thought of that ourselves last night - however having thought of it , I rang student finance again to check what proof they would need to prove I had 'moved out' and the only things they will accept are a council tax bill showing single persons discount or a lease in my name. Since we only have 5 weeks until she is supposed to go to uni - I highly doubt I can achieve either of those things in such a short space of time - as it also takes them 3 weeks to sort out the finance once they receive the proofs. We had thought that by appling for her finance in January and being assured at least 5 times over the phone they had all the proof they needed that it would be sorted out in time!

 

[darben]

There are quite a lot of studenty room lets being advertised at the moment, I'm sure there are some still on the Wolverhampton road and on friars terrace. I bet you could get a contract quickly on one of these!

 

[hop]

Student finance do not consider a child an adult until they are 25 which is clearly ridiculous. If she was over 25 she would be counted as an independent adult and can claim on her own wage and would get the full grant and loan.
Students under 25 can only claim as an independent adult if they are married, have a child, their parents are dead or if they have been financially independent for 3 years.
My daughter has been living on her own for 9 months and working 60 hours a week for a year to get some money together to go to uni - and only 5 weeks before she is due to go and despite several phone calls to them asking if they have all the evidence to support our claim they finally decide to ask if I am in a relationship.

The funding has worked this way for many years.
I omitted to mention the tax years since that would have muddied the waters however it could be used for future years.

She should still qualify for a full loan and I have no idea how much the maintenance grant now is. I was in a similar situation as an undergraduate having left home and severed contact with my parents. Despite the fact I had no contact i was affected by the system. It didn't deter me though. I claimed a full loan and then applied for hardship finance from the university in addition I got a few part time jobs including cleaning the offices of Deliotte and working for BT.

There is little you can do about the system, an every system will have winners and losers. I wouldn't let this put her off applying, from my own experience I found that University was frequently a great leveller, with most people including the middle class being in the same boat - basically just about everyone is hard up.

Your daughter might have to do a little more paid work and a little less partying than others but this should help to strenghten her resolve and give her the necessary work ethic to make a successful career.

 

[tek-monkey]

Gotta admit I thought grants were a thing of the past, and loans weren't means tested? So glad I went to uni when there were no fees at all and we got almost 2k a year as a free grant, still find it odd that it was under a Tory government!

 

[Jade-clothing]

The funding has worked this way for many years.
I omitted to mention the tax years since that would have muddied the waters however it could be used for future years.

She should still qualify for a full loan and I have no idea how much the maintenance grant now is. I was in a similar situation as an undergraduate having left home and severed contact with my parents. Despite the fact I had no contact i was affected by the system. It didn't deter me though. I claimed a full loan and then applied for hardship finance from the university in addition I got a few part time jobs including cleaning the offices of Deliotte and working for BT.

There is little you can do about the system, an every system will have winners and losers. I wouldn't let this put her off applying, from my own experience I found that University was frequently a great leveller, with most people including the middle class being in the same boat - basically just about everyone is hard up.

Your daughter might have to do a little more paid work and a little less partying than others but this should help to strenghten her resolve and give her the necessary work ethic to make a successful career.

Yes, I agree - my daughter isn't afraid of hard work - as I said she's been working a 60 hour week for a year now. she's a grafter like her mum
she fully intends to get a part time job while she is in London and we are planning on applying based on my partners income now - they can't tell us over the phone just how much of a difference it will make so we won't know until 2 weeks before she goes if its do-able but we're going to give it a damn good go!
I'm still going to do my damndest to drum up some publicity about the system though - despite the fact I know it won't make a difference.
I think we have now ruled out me 'moving out' - it was a knee jerk reaction on the phone while I was upset - it is a little extreme.

 

[Jade-clothing]

Gotta admit I thought grants were a thing of the past, and loans weren't means tested? So glad I went to uni when there were no fees at all and we got almost 2k a year as a free grant, still find it odd that it was under a Tory government!

Apparantly the grant is a maintenance grant. Which is means tested. I don't think the loan part is means tested but as she will now get less grant she will be getting more loan - which means in the long run she will have more to pay back. although they couldn't quote us figures on the phone they did say she will get less loan than before as its done on a sliding scale based on how much more my partner earns over 25,000 - which I don't understand to be honest - if it is as they say not means tested!
But as all government things the way they work it out is baffling - I remember in the days when i was claiming tax credits the end of year reviews were worded in such a way you couldn't make head or tail of how they actually arrived at the figures. they probably just pull it out of a hat for all I know!

 

[tek-monkey]

It will all be decided by committee, if you've ever been to a government committee meeting you will know that pulling names out of a hat is almost considered witchcraft compared to their level of decision making.

I once attended about 9 meetings to decide how a website should look, and at the end we still had no idea as different people attended different meetings and made different decisions that the next meeting reversed. In the end I installed a php based forum and changed the colour slightly, which was within spec so was accepted.

 

[hop]

Apparantly the grant is a maintenance grant. Which is means tested. I don't think the loan part is means tested but as she will now get less grant she will be getting more loan - which means in the long run she will have more to pay back

The maintenance grant is means tested, the studnet loan is not. She should be able to apply for a hardship fund whatever her circumstances, you just have to show a low bank balance, which is easy to achieve.

You can determine the amount of the maintenance grant here. As can be seen the difference between a full grant and nothing is £17k. As already mentioned if you are on the upper limit then backdating pension contributions could reduce this to the lower limit. Therefore a 17k contribution would be the equivalent of £14k and in the case of two children £11k.

If she is studying in London then one of the major expeneses will be accommodation. Some of the halls are very luxurious with ensuite bathrooms, however they cost a fair bit more. I would stick to a basic room with shared facilities.

Probably worth getting a second hand tatty bike or using Boris bikes (at least someone else does the maintenance). Don't get a good bike it will only get stollen or vandalised. Central London is actually quite small and the tube maps are not to scale, what looks like it might be a considerable distance on a tube map may only be a few hundred metres, so get a paper based pocket A-Z and consider if you can walk rather than being lazy and using puplic tansport.

Don't be fooled into thinking that living in somewhere like Tottenham will reduce the costs. Yes accommodation will be cheaper, but your travelling expenses will be greater (less so if you use the bus instead of tube or use a bike).

She should also apply for summer interships prior to December in her second year. The big firms like Accenture, PriceWaterhouseCooper, Deliotte, Arthur Anderson, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley etc.. close their application process early and if she gets a summer internship there is the possibility of sponsorship in the final year as well as an entry level job on 40k.

 

[tek-monkey]

I know things have changed a bit since I was at uni, but I found those in proper shared accomodation made friends a hell of a lot quicker than those in their own places. They also had more arguments over washing up!

 

[Jade-clothing]

The maintenance grant is means tested, the studnet loan is not. She should be able to apply for a hardship fund whatever her circumstances, you just have to show a low bank balance, which is easy to achieve.

You can determine the amount of the maintenance grant here. As can be seen the difference between a full grant and nothing is £17k. As already mentioned if you are on the upper limit then backdating pension contributions could reduce this to the lower limit. Therefore a 17k contribution would be the equivalent of £14k and in the case of two children £11k.

If she is studying in London then one of the major expeneses will be accommodation. Some of the halls are very luxurious with ensuite bathrooms, however they cost a fair bit more. I would stick to a basic room with shared facilities.

Probably worth getting a second hand tatty bike or using Boris bikes (at least someone else does the maintenance). Don't get a good bike it will only get stollen or vandalised. Central London is actually quite small and the tube maps are not to scale, what looks like it might be a considerable distance on a tube map may only be a few hundred metres, so get a paper based pocket A-Z and consider if you can walk rather than being lazy and using puplic tansport.

Don't be fooled into thinking that living in somewhere like Tottenham will reduce the costs. Yes accommodation will be cheaper, but your travelling expenses will be greater (less so if you use the bus instead of tube or use a bike).

She should also apply for summer interships prior to December in her second year. The big firms like Accenture, PriceWaterhouseCooper, Deliotte, Arthur Anderson, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley etc.. close their application process early and if she gets a summer internship there is the possibility of sponsorship in the final year as well as an entry level job on 40k.

thanks Hop - that's helpful. If the income is between two of the amounts listed do they go for the upper bracket or the lower bracket - or is it a sliding scale between these amounts?
She's already booked her accommodation - in a basic room with shared facilities - the cheapest we could find!
she knows her way round London quite well and we've already discussed all the travel options - she should be able to walk on a daily basis and it will only be the odd occasion when she needs to go further afield.