Support Stafford Hospital

[db]

I obviously didn't express myself properly because I was agreeing with you

ah, sozzard - i guess i fell into the trap that a lot of people do, in thinking that the forum seems to be full of miserable lefty hippies who disagree with anyone of sensible mind! my fault for going on the defensive when it wasn't warranted

 

[Withnail]

ah, sozzard - i guess i fell into the trap that a lot of people do, in thinking that the forum seems to be full of miserable lefty hippies who disagree with anyone of sensible mind! my fault for going on the defensive when it wasn't warranted

Now you see now, you see.

It has been very easy to fall into such a trap.

And i'll tell you why it's been so easy to do so.

Most everybody that has been as expressive as to express their displeasure as to the current 'difficulties', as it were, has always managed to undermine their POV by doing the whole 'i don't know about you, but this whole 'getting rid of the hospital thing' is

a) Deplorable
b) All because of that Bailey woman

Yes, it is deplorable, No it isn't because of Julie Bailey.

Can we get our collectively thick skulls around that?

Reality-check - you can actually believe that a zero-harm NHS is an achievable goal AND

March on the 20th April to do as much as you can to save your Hospital.


I'll be there.

 

[db]

Now you see now, you see.

It has been very easy to fall into such a trap.

indeed it is.. it works both ways, though! people who wish julie bailey would shut up (i.e. most people, judging by opinion on here, facebook, letters to local press, etc.) are very often dismissed by those on their high horse[sup]*[/sup] as they are presumed to be in this category:

Most everybody that has been as expressive as to express their displeasure as to the current 'difficulties', as it were, has always managed to undermine their POV by doing the whole 'i don't know about you, but this whole 'getting rid of the hospital thing' is

a) Deplorable
b) All because of that Bailey woman

...when in reality, i'm sure that most of these people could be more accurately described as thinking "i'm glad she 'blew the whistle' in the first instance, and don't for a minute wish that she had never said anything, but she has said her piece now and her constant pandering to the media isn't helping things."

yes, there are people who seem to somehow blame julie bailey for the problems, which obviously makes no sense at all - all she did was highlight the fact that they exist, which clearly needed to happen (as proven by the myriad reports we have since seen) - and i agree that their "opinions" should be largely ignored.. however, as you say, it's easy to fall into the trap of disregarding the voices of those that you presume to disagree with (as i did, above!), so i s'pose we should all be mindful of not making an ass of u and me


* not levelled at you personally at all! heavens, one doesn't 'alf feel the need to provide constant disclaimers and cover one's back to avoid misunderstanding and causing offence in threads like this!

 

[ATJ]

Why is there this 'us and them' battle between Support Stafford Hospital and Cure the NHS?

Why is it so difficult for people to separate two different issues?

Issue 1) Cure the NHS territory.

Stafford Hospital had terrible standards of care. Inquiries have taken place which have validated everything they had to say on care there. The campaign continues for someone to be held to account for the terrible things that happened, for widespread change to take place within the NHS so it never happens again and for those managers responsible to never be allowed to work in care or health ever again.

Issue 2) Support Stafford Hospital territory.

These events happened 5 years ago. Since then, Stafford has improved its care and services and is now one of the best hospitals in the West Midlands. Unfortunately, it still has a bad reputation and faces service cuts and closure because members of the public are scared to attend, politicians are capitalising on the events to push their privatisation agendas and the media love a good scare story. The campaign has just begun to keep acute services, maternity services and A&E in Stafford.

Why can't both sides agree that both issues are true?
Why can't they form a united front to keep our hospital open while campaigning for cultural change of NHS management?

Why must Support Stafford Hospital blame Cure the NHS for the potential loss of services?
Why must Cure the NHS blame Support Stafford Hospital for the actions of a few idiots who harass their members?

We're none of us going to achieve our aims without all sides coming together to form a united front.

 

[supportstaffordhospital]

Support Stafford Hospital group is made up of a very wide of people (political or A political) and it is pretty amazing that they have come together under one umbrella. I personally dont think that as a group we blame Cure the NHS for potential loss of services in fact we would thank Julie Bailey for all the hard work she has done and hope that she and Cure NHS would come together to keep services at Stafford Hospital. Julian Porter.

 

[Withnail]

Julian Porter.

Tell ya wifey that, with all the good will in the world, the 'hands round the hospital' thing is not, and i stress not, a good idea. Abandon it.

Build it and people will come. Let them do so on their own terms.

 

[Withnail]

I should, perhaps, expand on this.

What do we want!

Lots of people.

How do we want them?

Together.

Lots of people look good in photos - it kind of looks like lots of people are all gathered together in some kind of common purpose.

A bit like this -

- for example.

All those lots of people don't look like quite so many people once they have strung themselves out in a line. In theory it sounds good, but unless you have commissioned yourself a helicopter to picture all those people strung out in a line surrounding the hospital, the overall effect will be far less dramatic.

Have you got yourselves a helicopter to picture those people strung out in a line around the hospital? No, you haven't. They will thusfore, at ground level, look like a line of people doing the hokey cokey and it will look like a pile of pants.

Pull yourselves together.

 

[Withnail]

P.S.

You might want to ignore what i've said ^above.

And that would be because you've never actually been on a demo before. To which i'll ask you this.

You're hoping for 20,000 people to join you (of which i'll be one, by the way) right? When you get there, how do you think you will coordinate 20,000 people in any coherent way?

Have you horses? No, you don't. Keep it simple.

 

[Withnail]

Or perhaps someone, somewhere, at some time, will stick their head above the parapet and acclaim that the whole 'hands around the hospital' is actually a good idea - and that Withnail bloke is talking out of his behind.

Anyone?

It's alright, we apparently have all the time in the world. And need nothing more.

Oh wait, no we don't.

 

[ATJ]

Support Stafford Hospital group is made up of a very wide of people (political or A political) and it is pretty amazing that they have come together under one umbrella. I personally dont think that as a group we blame Cure the NHS for potential loss of services in fact we would thank Julie Bailey for all the hard work she has done and hope that she and Cure NHS would come together to keep services at Stafford Hospital. Julian Porter.

I've spent some time recently perusing the Support Stafford Hospital Facebook page and I wish I knew how to link directly to posts because there are some on there which really demonstrate the point of my previous post.

There is animosity between the two groups and you can't 'hope that she and Cure NHS would come together to keep services at Stafford Hospital' without acknowledging and trying to resolve that fact.

There are posts on the groups home page criticising JB and Rowan Draper recently publicised blogs by prominent supporters of Cure the NHS claiming Support Stafford Hospital orchestrates attacks on JB.

Really, you need to convince members of the group to rise above it. To attack the method not the person. To make a point of sticking to the campaign of keeping the hospital open. To engage the press in your own campaign instead of complaining that they're paying to much attention to the old campaign.

And for Christ's sake, take down discussions on your home page discussing the likely mental state of JB.

 

[ATJ]

I should clarify that I know you can't control the things others post on your wall and stop people from saying what they like, and I know you can't monitor your Facebook page all the time... but I do think you can do more to prevent personal comments given those that would detract from your campaign ammo.

Also, I'm sure there's a lot more hard work going on behind the scenes that I don't appreciate, but from the outside looking in, what I've seen over the last few days is frankly ridiculous.

I support the hospital and will be there on 20th April. I just want to see this campaign be the best it can be.

 

[proactive]

I've spent some time recently perusing the Support Stafford Hospital Facebook page and I wish I knew how to link directly to posts because there are some on there which really demonstrate the point of my previous post.

There is animosity between the two groups and you can't 'hope that she and Cure NHS would come together to keep services at Stafford Hospital' without acknowledging and trying to resolve that fact.

There are posts on the groups home page criticising JB and Rowan Draper recently publicised blogs by prominent supporters of Cure the NHS claiming Support Stafford Hospital orchestrates attacks on JB.

Really, you need to convince members of the group to rise above it. To attack the method not the person. To make a point of sticking to the campaign of keeping the hospital open. To engage the press in your own campaign instead of complaining that they're paying to much attention to the old campaign.

And for Christ's sake, take down discussions on your home page discussing the likely mental state of JB.

I have previously only visited the website but your post prompted me to break the habits of a lifetime and take a look at the Facebook page.

Far from it just being 'members of the public' so to speak, who are criticising JB it's the person who actually posts on behalf of the group itself!!! Unbelievable.

And then we get the bollocks previously posted on here about wanting everyone to pull together, apparently by the same poster (well at least he is using the same username...)

Support Stafford Hospital group is made up of a very wide of people (political or A political) and it is pretty amazing that they have come together under one umbrella. I personally dont think that as a group we blame Cure the NHS for potential loss of services in fact we would thank Julie Bailey for all the hard work she has done and hope that she and Cure NHS would come together to keep services at Stafford Hospital. Julian Porter.

Quite frankly the Facebook page is a disgrace and makes me seriously consider whether SSH is really an organisation I want to support at all.

I'll be at the march but after that we'll see.

Some people at SSH obviously need to get things in hand, organise things properly and stop making the organisation look like its supported by a disorganised rabble of people who haven't got a clue.

 

[supportstaffordhospital]

a couple of things, the Express and Star conluded themselves that we were going to circle the Hospital, that is not in the plans. secondly i am not sure which facebook stream 'proactive' copied but its not the one i am admin on as i post under my name Julian Porter.

 

[proactive]

secondly i am not sure which facebook stream 'proactive' copied but its not the one i am admin on as i post under my name Julian Porter.

The address is there in the screenshot if you care to look.

As you glossed over the content of it I can only assume you have no problem with it.

 

[ATJ]

Ah, I can see the confusion. Proactive found a community page, but I was referring to the official group page here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/supportstaffordhospital/?ref=ts&fref=ts

Comments made in response to the post 03/04/13 at 09:06 are particularly fuel for the fire.

Having multiple (apparently) unaffiliated groups using the same name can't help matters when it comes to the press, now, can it?

As far as I know, the same people run this page:

https://www.facebook.com/SaveMidStaffs?ref=ts&fref=ts

The post on Thursday highlighting a blog which alleges Support Stafford Hospital have been desecrating graves is the same one Rowan Draper made to the support Stafford hospital group page (but has disappeared from that particular feed). ]

Blog here:

http://nhscomplaint.wordpress.com/2...attackers-now-resorting-to-grave-desecration/

(I don't believe the content and I'm not endorsing it either, I'm just trying to make the point that Support Stafford Hospital obviously has people who don't want to see the group succeed and you shouldn't be helping them by ignoring the things people say when they're representing the group)

The things I was referring to aren't anywhere near as foul as the comments Proactive posted (thankfully) but I feel they still need dealing with if you want the press to take the group and the campaign seriously. Even if you feel like these comments aren't made by you and are therefore nothing to do with you, simple association is enough to put people off.

 

[Withnail]

...the Express and Star concluded themselves that we were going to circle the Hospital, that is not in the plans.

Jolly good.

See you there.

 

[proactive]

Ah, I can see the confusion. Proactive found a community page, but I was referring to the official group page here

Like I always say, I don't 'do' Facebook.

The things I was referring to aren't anywhere near as foul as the comments Proactive posted (thankfully) but I feel they still need dealing with if you want the press to take the group and the campaign seriously. Even if you feel like these comments aren't made by you and are therefore nothing to do with you, simple association is enough to put people off.

Spot on.

The whole thing is an almighty mess and unless and until there is unity, and that can only come with someone of strength taking control of the campaign, it is doomed to failure. Unfortunately.

 

[Spelunker]

When we were deciding on moving to Stafford the Hospital was high on our needs list as we have a young family.
There is no doubt that the County Town needs a Hospital with a full range of facilities and in terms of critical care you will want it as close as possible when the unthinkable affects you.
The campaign let by Cure The NHS imho was a good thing because if nothing else, we the public now know the grim details from the public enquiry and are now able to make an informed decision.
Having experienced the facilities over the Easter holiday I could not find fault with the level of care and the helpful and compassionate staff.
We need this Hospital.
We are not going to retain it when the two most prominent campaign groups are at each others throats and are more concerned by bringing each other down than the task at hand.

I did witness first hand the polarisation of feelings when I visited Sainsbury's on Saturday when Save Stafford Hospital were holding an event and to be honest was totally put off by the vitriol expressed by one of the campaigners to a member of the public when She did not agree with his view.

It was shameful the way the woman was spoken to and not the way to win support in a public forum such as Sainsbury's entrance on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[Admin]

I have removed a few posts from this thread.

As you know, Stafford Forum prides itself on not censoring anyone, regardless of how controversial their views or statements may be. However, this is too important an issue for me to not get involved and to 'sanity check' the posts made in this thread.

I desperately want to support Stafford hospital, and I desperately want to promote this thread in order to do so. I feel that I can only do that if I make sure personal attacks and political mud-slinging is kept to a minimum.

Please help me to do this by keeping a positive vibe to this thread, and making sure that it is only about supporting Stafford hospital, and the Support Stafford Hospital campaign.

Many thanks.

 

[ATJ]

I have removed a few posts from this thread.

As you know, Stafford Forum prides itself on not censoring anyone, regardless of how controversial their views or statements may be. However, this is too important an issue for me to not get involved and to 'sanity check' the posts made in this thread.

I desperately want to support Stafford hospital, and I desperately want to promote this thread in order to do so. I feel that I can only do that if I make sure personal attacks and political mud-slinging is kept to a minimum.

Please help me to do this by keeping a positive vibe to this thread, and making sure that it is only about supporting Stafford hospital, and the Support Stafford Hospital campaign.

Many thanks.

This ^ is what Support Stafford Hospital as a group need to tell all their members!

Cheers Admin