Why does everyone hate thatcher?

[shoes]

TBH I don't know the answer to this question, and neither does DB. Nor a single affluent person I have met.

So, haters, whats going down with thatcher?

 

[db]

although it was i who suggested this thread, and i am very much interested to hear the responses, i would like to distance myself from shoes with regards to personal and political beliefs lol..

this sort of thing:

TBH I don't know the answer to this question ... Nor a single affluent person I have met.

...does not do one any favours lol

 

[shoes]

i know it doesn't. i don't really care either tbh, most people piss me off something chronic, i'm sure its a two way street.

 

[Alan B'Stard]

I wouldn't say that everybody hates Thatcher. My parents loved her and voted for her every time. Thatcher was probably the most divisive PM of all time, to her supporters, she could do no wrong, to her critics, she was the devil reincarnated.

I fall in the latter category and probably began to do so around 1983-84 with the Miners Strike being predominantly on the news every evening. There were no miners where I lived, I did not know any miners, I'm not related to anybody who worked in the mining industry. The sight of the battle of Orgreave on the TV screen began to open my eyes that we were, in that time, living in a country where the government overtly and covertly utilised the resources of the Police for their own political gain.

Thatcher had planned the Miners strike from as early as 1974. There was no economic argument other than Thatchers' driven belief in breaking with the post war consensus of full employment and favouring a service economy over a manufacturing based one. The shift from one economic emphasis to the other had huge costs for the country, it out millions out of work as the country restructured, riots were common in the inner cities, the north-south divide began to arise. Wales became a no-job country without any pits and dependent on European economic grants.

Heroin use rocketed, not only in the inner cities but in the sleepy quiet towns that once had manufacturing jobs but now became reliant on seasonal tourism as part of the service economy.

The acts of Thatcher were all planned, she knew what would happen to the people and she knew she had to strengthen the powers of the state to cope with this. Police had consistently above average pay rises to secure their loyalty. Benefits were frozen, reduced and recategorised to fiddle the figures and make more people "self reliant". VAT was doubled thereby increasing taxation of the poorest amongst us whilst giving huge tax cuts and breaks to the entrepeneurs of society who were expected to redistribute their wealth through charities of their choice rather than the state.

She bribed the electorate with the Council House sales and then refused to allow councils to reinvest this money into housing. The net effect of this was to create an issue of homelessness, something unheard of until her years, except for the occasional "man of the road" types. She was against subsidising industry at all, prefering to let the market dictate, allow the free hand to guide us and let buisiness go to wall rather than rescue them. And yet at the same time she subsidised the mortgage market with MIRAS, further bribing others to purchase houses by giving them tax relief on their mortgage.

Thatcher was willing to subsidise and help "her people", The Police, The Army, Homeowners, Charities, anybody that could be viewed as potential supportes for her cause, if you were not in that group, you were effectively screwed.

She used the Police to prevent the Winter Solstice celebrations in 84/85 and the Battle of the Beanfield ensued with Police beating hippies out of their buses for no more of a reason than having a free party, although having said that, hippies were not Thatchers people so that was OK, nor were single mums, students, the public sector, manufacturing, anybody northern or midlands.

Following the Miners defeat, she shackled the Trades Unions with excessive and preventative legislation that makes withdrawing labour nigh on impossible.

She ordered the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of the exclusion zone and moving towards home not the Falklands.

I could go on all night.

But the main reason I hate Thatcher is that she stole my milk, and for that, I will never forgive her.

 

[tek-monkey]

I grew up in a single parent household with 4 kids, my mum being on benefits because she couldn't get a job that would afford childcare once my dad walked. We were the scum thatcher hated, most of her policies were detrimental to us. My mum used to clean the salvation army hall for a few quid a week, because that's all she was allowed to earn before it was taken off your benefits, and she'd have to wait in kemley house for hours each week just to have that agreed. And the bitch stole my milk.

I could never vote blue, I was so happy that on my first vote we got labour in. Now I obviously regret that too, bunch of thieves the lot of them.

 

[kyoto49]

Fundamentally, she wrecked community and society. I was a kid in the 70's, and left school in the early 80's so was subject to that was wrong with Thatcher and her style of politics.

Areas of heavy industry in the North were decimated. What she seemed unable to 'get' though, was that if you take the work from an area, you ruin the whole community. Pit villages were completely dependent on the pit for money in the form of wages, but it was more. The pit was the centre of the whole community, the social side, the sporting side, the colliery bands etc. Not only did the whole village lose its job, but an entire generation lost their future, and they are still struggling with this legacy.

Even in Stafford, I remember that the only chance of a 'job' was a YOP ot YTS. Basically a scheme where a young person was emplyed to work full time for £25 A WEEK. THe idea was that the employer would train the youngster, and keep them on at the end of the year. The reality was that employers used the scheme as a pool of cheap labour, having one YTS trainee after another. Remeber Damon on Brookside being devastated because they had promised him a job while he was on his YTS, he worked hard for a year, and he was then replaced by a new YTS lad. He was devastated.

She also centralised much power from the local councils to central government in London. She hated to think that militant councils like Liverpool had any power and ultimately removed it all. We are now left with almost figurehead local councils doing what central government decrees. Thus the disengagement of the population. They feel that the government isn't listening - well are they? Even Michael Portillo a Conservative, was on t.v the other night arguing that the only was we can re-engage the voters in politics is to take politics and the political decision making back to the regions and local people.

Thatcher, and her politics were, and always will be detested in this house

 

[basil]

Because she's still alive!.........

 

[John Marwood]

Always good to try and inform a different generation on how we came to be where we are now..

Trouble is they have the attention of half a knat

( we however had the attention of a whole knat )

perhaps a few photographs or pop songs mayhelp..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urLRoVUzg3Q

 

[John Marwood]

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

Declan Patrick Mcmanus

 

[basil]

I hear what you're saying........

 

[Alan B'Stard]

Ghost Town by The Specials tells it well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ2oXzrnti4

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

God I miss the 80s... Even though I barely remember anything from then! (The Battle of the Beanfield took place most likely just a few days after I was conceived.) =(

 

[Withnail]

I'm not sure i'd go so far as to say i hate her but i do blame her.

What he said

and

what she said

and i think they have done a wonderful job in showing why feelings run so high.

All i would like to add is that, in the aftermath of the crushing defeat of 1997, the Conservative Party sought to reinvent itself in the same way 'New' Labour had. It is indicative of the Thatcher years that they should latch on to the epithet of 'compassionate' conservatism because, to me at least, her failings sprung from such a lack of compassion that still resonates today.

I could go on all night.

and so could i.

But i won't.

 

[Withnail]

MT...
I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand"I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or"I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and[fo 1] there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation and it is, I think, one of the tragedies in which many of the benefits we give, which were meant to reassure people that if they were sick or ill there was a safety net and there was help, that many of the benefits which were meant to help people who were unfortunate—" It is all right. We joined together and we have these insurance schemes to look after it" . That was the objective, but somehow there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to say to people:"All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!" but when people come and say:"But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!" You say:"Look" It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!"

There is also something else I should say to them:"If that does not give you a basic standard, you know, there are ways in which we top up the standard. You can get your housing benefit."

But it went too far. If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society.[fo 2] There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate. And the worst things we have in life, in my view, are where children who are a great privilege and a trust—they are the fundamental great trust, but they do not ask to come into the world, we bring them into the world, they are a miracle, there is nothing like the miracle of life—we have these little innocents and the worst crime in life is when those children, who would naturally have the right to look to their parents for help, for comfort, not only just for the food and shelter but for the time, for the understanding, turn round and not only is that help not forthcoming, but they get either neglect or worse than that, cruelty.

How do you set about teaching a child religion at school, God is like a father, and she thinks"like someone who has been cruel to them?" It is those children you cannot … you just have to try to say they can only learn from school or we as their neighbour have to try in some way to compensate. This is why my foremost charity has always been the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, because over a century ago when it was started, it was hoped that the need for it would dwindle to nothing and over a hundred years later the need for it is greater, because we now realise that the great problems in life are not those of housing and food and standard of living. When we have[fo 3] got all of those, when we have got reasonable housing when you compare us with other countries, when you have got a reasonable standard of living and you have got no-one who is hungry or need be hungry, when you have got an education system that teaches everyone—not as good as we would wish—you are left with what? You are left with the problems of human nature, and a child who has not had what we and many of your readers would regard as their birthright—a good home—it is those that we have to get out and help, and you know, it is not only a question of money as everyone will tell you; not your background in society. It is a question of human nature and for those children it is difficult to say:"You are responsible for your behaviour!" because they just have not had a chance and so I think that is one of the biggest problems and I think it is the greatest sin.

Unhinged.

 

[Withnail]

Sorry again but....

Shameful, shameful support for Apartheid South Africa.

Felt it needed to be remembered.

 

[Monquey]

Skills to all in this thread for a fine array of arguments (except shoes, of course. I know plenty of affluent people who also hate Thatcher, you utter tit.)

 

[Withnail]

That's a little harsh.

He asked a reasonable question and would appear to have listened to the answers.

 

[shoes]

I've been quietly listening in on this one. I dared not to comment from fear of being shot down.

Suffice so say my feelings on this are controversial to say the least.

I don't agree with the de-industrialisation nor support for South Africa's Apertheid system.

The rest of my feelings I will keep to myself.

 

[db]

interesting reading.. was she really in support of apartheid?? surely that can't have gone down well with anyone, even her supporters?

how is any of what withnail quoted "unhinged", though? all seems to make sense to me.. particularly:

MT...
but when people come and say:"But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!" You say:"Look" It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!"

Unhinged.

isn't that what loads of people complain about today - how the benefits system has grown into such a bloated mess that people abuse it in exactly the way she describes? and she makes a good point - when people say they are "on the dole" and "just exploiting the system", they are not - they are exploiting the taxes paid by their neighbours..

and the rest is just about her support for NSPCC.. doesn't sound unhinged to me :/

 

[Withnail]

It's really more the rambling stream of conciousness lunacy i was getting at.

However, it's a bit rich to ask people to get on their bikes when you've nicked their wheels.