Wiring question - outdoor lights

[tek-monkey]

Anyone know a good website to tell me how to do the following?

We need probably 4 lights down the length of the garden, on a PIR. However, we want a PIR at both ends, which triggers all the lights, so it doesn't matter if we're going to or from the garage. Walking it in the dark is a pain, and although both ends have security lighting the middle bit is pitch black. There is power to the garage, and a socket halfway down the garden that I am yet to test. Any ideas?

 

[Gramaisc]

Here's an interim solution.

 

[shoes]

Haha!

I believe B&Q actually do 'kits' like this mate.

 

[tek-monkey]

Here's an interim solution.

Whilst I may not be able to beat people to death with permanent light, I still think it 'may' be more practical

Cheers shoes, will look.

 

[Edd209]

chuffin heck mate, how longs the garden?

 

[shoes]

Not been for the great tour of the garden yet Tek, will have to pop round and check it out. Will bring the PC bits too.

On Google Earth it looks like it should be a Shire!

 

[tek-monkey]

You can see it in post 20 here. Cool shoes, come up whenever. Apparently my bro is having a few ppl over tomo to play poker, fancy it? He only invited me last night!

EDIT: Be easier just to post the actual pic!

 

[shoes]

Ah afraid not I'm photographing the "Little Dirty" in Birmingham.

On the lighting front, you can buy lights and PIR switches seperately from each other. Most PIR switches (according to diynot.com) will be good for 2000w, and 4 x 500w lamps should be more than sufficient. I assume you would wire them up in parallel, also also the two PIRs in the same way you'd wire up a light with two switches, say one at the top and bottom of stairs in your hours. This would be easier i reckon than modding a couple of lamps with built in PIR switches. Sounds an interesting mini project.

 

[Markerat]

This is what i beleive to be the wiring schematic

Be aware that the higher the wattage of the bulbs the higher the current draw as demonstrated. Hope this helps.

 

[Gramaisc]

If you can find the garage supply in the house then you can avoid the permanently live wire ( top ) running the whole way between the two PIRs. They could be supplied locally at each end, but it is fairly important that they are on the same circuit or one day you could be fiddling with it at dusk having isolated one end - only to have it activate from the other end.

You could put a manual over-ride switch at each end, as well. Then you only need to run a live, neutral and earth down the garden and into and out of each light.

 

[shoes]

I do like the circle of equations you have there - saved!

Thats pretty much how I imagined it to be however if you arrive at the garage and trip the bottom PIR, walk to the top and trip the other PIR then you'll have a conflict of input power. It may be necessary to forego the PIR and just have normal switches in order to keep this solution cost effective.

See figure 2 on this one.

In fact you'll need to use logic here, a NAND gate would be what you need, so the output is 1 when either or both inputs are 1. Conversely, if both inputs are 0 then output is 0.

Easy enough to put together, 4011 i believe is what you need - speak to downtown. I'll happily blow, sorry wire it up for you

 

[Gramaisc]

It'll be OK. It doesn't matter if it's connected at one or the other or both ends. It's all on the same phase and at the same voltage.

 

[shoes]

Really? I'm going to test this theory when I get home

I know very little about AC electronics though, should probably read up a little!

 

[Rikki]

As long as all the lights are on the same circuit i see no reason why you cant link the switched lives from the PIR's. However your main problems going to be running the cables as your going to have to pick up your live, neutral, earth from either the garage or house. You wont be able to wire a light at either end and run a switch live link as this would mean crossing two separately fused circuits which is dangerous and on modern fuse boards would cause them to trip. This means you will have to run a four core cable the entire length of the garden which will have to be armoured (and im not sure you can get such a thing) and will cost alot. The easiest and cheapest option might just be to forget about the lights working together and mount one at either end and hope the PIR's pick you up once you get half way.

 

[Gramaisc]

The crux of the matter is to find the garage supply in the house, assuming that is where it originates, which seems fairly likely. If you do that and the two PIRs are then only simultaneously isolatable, the 'two interconnected circuits' problem won't exist.

 

[Rikki]

Alternativley forget PIR's and just set up a standard 2 way switch to the lights.

On second thoughts This should slove the problem

 

[Gramaisc]

That was my first suggestion, but it wasn't tekky enough, apparently. See the first reply above. I'm not a fan of PIRs myself and would be quite happy with the two-way switch set-up. You can get these remotely operated switch adaptors nowadays, from Maplin and, sometimes, Lidl. They'll work at about a hundred feet. There was a set of three in Oxfam last week.

 

[Markerat]

Most modern day fuse breakers are RCCD's. Residual current circuit devices which measure in micro amps the difference between the live and the neutral polls. When the balance is tipped one way or the other outside of the set parameters then the trip gets thrown. As long as its all fed of a single point supply there should be no issue in my humble opinion.

Like a set of butchers balance scales for the less technically minded amongst us.

If your wiring outside then there are certain measures that must be adhered too like use of gland pack enclosures to at least IP 44 ingress and also use of armored trunking if your going to submerge it. Depends on how permanent your setup is going to be.

3 core twin and earth and 4 core twin and earth is easily obtainable from most good stockists for such purposes.

6242Y 2.5mm Twin & Earth Grey 100m
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25759/Electrical-Supplies/Cable/Twin-Earth/6242Y-2-5mm-Twin-Earth-Grey-100m

6243YH 1.0mm 3-Core & Earth Grey 50m
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/38160/Electrical-Supplies/Cable/3-Core-Earth/6243YH-1-0mm-3-Core-Earth-Grey-50m

 

[Markerat]

alternately one of these badgers at each end of the garden

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/20120/Lighting-Lamps/Floodlights/Wire-Free-Floodlighting/Symmetric-500W-Titanium-PIR-Floodlight

easy fit and half a kilowatt of power. It should light up the garden nicely.

 

[Markerat]

My wife Mrs Torirat says this thread is getting far too techy now. Can we please have a forum that is just about fluffy kittens and shoes so she doesnt feel left out (apologies to fellow forumite Mr Shoes no offence intended)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/94283635@N00/1690143451/