Carole
Well-Known Forumite
Thanks for the lecture, I’ll bear it all in mind.
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That vegan thread.
- Thread starter 1JKz
- Start date
Thanks for the lecture, I’ll bear it all in mind.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Really? That wasn't my intention at all, honestly!
Ranted at if you work for the Daily Mail then fair enough but no, not meant to be a rant at you.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
The OneGreenPlanet is a great article.
The first picture should help towards people to wake up and smell the cruelty.
Look at the poor lady moos, all that so we can drink their baby moos milk!?
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
kyoto49
Well-Known Forumite
The OneGreenPlanet is a great article.
The first picture should help towards people to wake up and smell the cruelty.
Look at the poor lady moos, all that so we can drink their baby moos milk!?
How can this level of industrial cruelty and the emaciation of these poor creatures not stir milk drinkers in to reassessing what they eat and drink? What motivates people to turn a blind eye to this level of cruelty? Cows should NOT look like this.........you only need to look at beef cow mothers to see how a healthy cow should look. This emaciation is caused by their bodies being physically exhausted from being pregnant and lactating at the same time for their whole miserable lives
People who drink milk, how can you live with knowing this is directly caused by you? or do you just not care? Can't get my head round it
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
I'm with you but have to remind myself of how long i was tuned out from it, it took me many years of seeing pictures like this, articles i read and videos i watched to finally turn vegan and do the right thing, forever regretting not doing it sooner.How can this level of industrial cruelty and the emaciation of these poor creatures not stir milk drinkers in to reassessing what they eat and drink? What motivates people to turn a blind eye to this level of cruelty? Cows should NOT look like this.........you only need to look at beef cow mothers to see how a healthy cow should look. This emaciation is caused by their bodies being physically exhausted from being pregnant and lactating at the same time for their whole miserable lives
People who drink milk, how can you live with knowing this is directly caused by you? or do you just not care? Can't get my head round it
One has gotta allow people to change in their own time but by'crickey it's painful not to scream and shout.
Carole
Well-Known Forumite
Everyone has their own personal crusade.
It might be saving the planet, not drinking, not smoking, not eating meat, saving whales, trying to help abused children, trying to help abused adults, trying to stop famine, not traveling to countries with a bad human rights record..the list goes on.
Feeling passionate about something is good.
Doing something about it is also good.
Forcing your opinion on others and telling them how to live their life is not good.
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady
Well-Known Forumite
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Contrary to what one might believe on here, or from reading the Guardian, vegans with the same zeal as Christian missionaries and the tolerance of Islamic militants are in the minority. Most vegans are just normal folk who don't eat meat and dairy.
The minority just have big mouths and loud voices.
Noah
Well-Known Forumite
As @Carole said, everyone has their own crusades. As far as I am concerned palm oil, cotton and soya are environmental disasters that have to be addressed.
Palm oil. Much of the world's supply comes from Indonesia, Large areas of native forest are cleared every year resulting in the deaths of up to 1000 orangutans a year, pushing the Sumatran tiger to the edge of extinction, and killing numerous other native species. Even local villages are being bulldozed to make way for plantations. Only 35 percent of the members of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil are actually certified as sustainable growers, the rest merely pay to be members without any guarantee of them following RSPO guidelines.
Cotton. Uses large quantities of water in its production, and needs the use of high levels of pesticides. In Uzbekistan & Tajikistan so much water has been drawn from rivers for cotton production that the Aral Sea into which they fed has all but dried out. This was one of the largest areas of inland water hosting many unique species, now most of its wildlife has been wiped out by cotton production. What is left is a desert from which around 43 million tons of pesticide laden dust are blown across the surrounding land. Cancer cases, particularly of the throat, have rocketed. In a Brazilian cotton growing area water is contaminated with around 19 pesticides. Organic cotton, if genuinely organic, is better but the need for unsustainable amounts of water is still a problem.
Soya. Much is grown in South America. In Argentina large areas of native forest are being cleared for soya production. The same goes for Brazil where illegal logging is eating into the rain forest at a horrendous rate and similar environmental damage is occurring in other soya production areas. Habitats are being destroyed and native animals are being killed. An article in the New Scientist reported recently that the inhabitants of two small native villages in Brazil had been massacred by illegal loggers clearing land for soya production. The new president of Brazil has said that he will remove the restrictions on logging to increase soya production.
Palm oil. Much of the world's supply comes from Indonesia, Large areas of native forest are cleared every year resulting in the deaths of up to 1000 orangutans a year, pushing the Sumatran tiger to the edge of extinction, and killing numerous other native species. Even local villages are being bulldozed to make way for plantations. Only 35 percent of the members of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil are actually certified as sustainable growers, the rest merely pay to be members without any guarantee of them following RSPO guidelines.
Cotton. Uses large quantities of water in its production, and needs the use of high levels of pesticides. In Uzbekistan & Tajikistan so much water has been drawn from rivers for cotton production that the Aral Sea into which they fed has all but dried out. This was one of the largest areas of inland water hosting many unique species, now most of its wildlife has been wiped out by cotton production. What is left is a desert from which around 43 million tons of pesticide laden dust are blown across the surrounding land. Cancer cases, particularly of the throat, have rocketed. In a Brazilian cotton growing area water is contaminated with around 19 pesticides. Organic cotton, if genuinely organic, is better but the need for unsustainable amounts of water is still a problem.
Soya. Much is grown in South America. In Argentina large areas of native forest are being cleared for soya production. The same goes for Brazil where illegal logging is eating into the rain forest at a horrendous rate and similar environmental damage is occurring in other soya production areas. Habitats are being destroyed and native animals are being killed. An article in the New Scientist reported recently that the inhabitants of two small native villages in Brazil had been massacred by illegal loggers clearing land for soya production. The new president of Brazil has said that he will remove the restrictions on logging to increase soya production.
Carole
Well-Known Forumite
People who drink milk, how can you live with knowing this is directly caused by you? or do you just not care? Can't get my head round it
How many years ago did you stop drinking milk or eating dairy?
Also please answer your own question...
how did you live with yourself when you did?
Edited to say, I actually remember now a few years ago that you posted something along the lines of you and your daughter we’re trying to go vegan.
So up until a few years ago you drank milk yourself.
So how can you pontificate and lecture others when you’ve not been vegan that long?
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1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Is that not how the advertising and marketing worlds work?
It is and it works, we all fall for it. If we didn't then nobody would buy, go or do anything. Our economy would cease to exist, and you know what we may be better off because of it but that ain't never going to happen, free society an all that.
K was merely wearing his heart on his sleeve and venting his frustration i feel, but i rek he is thinking about replying (or not) so we'll see.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Ditch the palm oil then.
Go without cotton then.
Don't consume soya then. Side note; about 70% of all soya grown is fed to livestock, those very animals people choose to eat.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
I feel left out.
kyoto49
Well-Known Forumite
With regard to soya it's a bit of a red herring in my opinion given that the vast majority is fed to animals who then inefficiently converted to meat. Remove animal use from the soya debate and the little needed for human consumption would require no new logging or environmental destruction. It's the rearing of animals that is the issue. When demand for meat drops then so will the demand for soya...even if the meat eaters become soya eating vegans!
I recently watched a film called 'The True Cost' on netflix. Its mainly about the environmental cost of fast fashion and fashion generally. People should watch it. The untold misery it causes for third world workers in the garment industry, their environment and producers of cotton the world over is horrific. Monsanto comes out of it very badly as well. If we buy cotton it should be organic and ethical. Costs though and people would rather buy regular supplies of cheap shit than think about the price paid by those who produce both the cotton and the garments to produce said cheap shit.
*Saw the light on Primark recently and have gone organic cotton and ethical only. Clothes are nicer as well...softer and morally righteous
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
What he said and more.With regard to soya it's a bit of a red herring in my opinion given that the vast majority is fed to animals who then inefficiently converted to meat. Remove animal use from the soya debate and the little needed for human consumption would require no new logging or environmental destruction. It's the rearing of animals that is the issue. When demand for meat drops then so will the demand for soya...even if the meat eaters become soya eating vegans!
I recently watched a film called 'The True Cost' on netflix. Its mainly about the environmental cost of fast fashion and fashion generally. People should watch it. The untold misery it causes for third world workers in the garment industry, their environment and producers of cotton the world over is horrific. Monsanto comes out of it very badly as well. If we buy cotton it should be organic and ethical. Costs though and people would rather buy regular supplies of cheap shit than think about the price paid by those who produce both the cotton and the garments to produce said cheap shit.
*Saw the light on Primark recently and have gone organic cotton and ethical only. Clothes are nicer as well...softer and morally righteous
The more bit being me saying he's right you know!
Holy faux balls k, i should stop liking your posts or some people on here may get into a tizz.
kyoto49
Well-Known Forumite
We were veggie up to the point that I found out the true costs. Once seen the horrors inflicted on dairy cows or pigs reared for meat cannot be unseen. That was the turning point for us. We didn't have the knowledge pre internet days and before I started investigating the issue fully. And that's my point...how can you KNOW about the abhorrent cruelty systemically inflicted on these gorgeous sentient creatures and carry on regardless...even before environmental damage is factored in? That's one of the things that is meant to separate us from the animals, the ability to see action and consequence and amend our behaviour as a consequence of this knowledge. Once we knew the facts it was a very easy decision.
Would you leave your dog in pain? Would you shut it in a shed with 1m of space? Would you let a dog get pregnant repeatedly, take the babies away at day 1 and then get her pregnant over and over until she was worn out? No you wouldn't, so what makes it ok to do this to cows or pigs or chickens? There is absolutely no difference between the dog you love so much and these animals. In fact the pigs are smarter!!
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kyoto49
Well-Known Forumite
If you don't want people to be giving there opinion on veganism or on those who choose to carry on forcing their abuse on animals then do feel free to feck off out of the VEGAN thread!!
