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Arriva Bus Fares Going Up 3rd Jan
- Thread starter henryscat
- Start date
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
So nearly 2 quid for a 1 mile journey on most of the local routes, when you can walk it in 20 minutes? Do people still pay these fares, or is the company kept afloat by the OAPs with bus passes?
Tumble weed
Well-Known Forumite
Are they taking the piss? £1.80 was pushing it, I'm not paying £2. I tend to walk 95% of the time anyway. Who are they kidding charging those prices ? £2 for a <5 minute journey in a straight line? Jog on.
The Stafford Beast
Well-Known Forumite
I have 2 buses go past my house and I live on a really small residential street. Most of the time, these buses are almost empty. A vehicle as small as a car or people carrier could service the route more effectively.
People who pay bus fares are paying for drivers to cruise large empty buses around residential areas in the hope there are a couple of OAPs standing at a bus stop.
If I was in charge, I'd put minibuses on in the daytime at less-frequent intervals. The larger buses would only operate on main roads such as Weston Road, Stone Road, Eccleshall Road, Newport Road, Lichfield Road, Doxey Road and Wolverhampton Road, which are less than half a mile away's walk from most people.
Obviously at rush hour and peak times, there would be larger buses running more frequently.
People who pay bus fares are paying for drivers to cruise large empty buses around residential areas in the hope there are a couple of OAPs standing at a bus stop.
If I was in charge, I'd put minibuses on in the daytime at less-frequent intervals. The larger buses would only operate on main roads such as Weston Road, Stone Road, Eccleshall Road, Newport Road, Lichfield Road, Doxey Road and Wolverhampton Road, which are less than half a mile away's walk from most people.
Obviously at rush hour and peak times, there would be larger buses running more frequently.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
I took the bus to town today. Of the 23 people (sad i know, but i counted) who took the journey, three (including myself) were paying passengers, the rest were bus pass holders.tek-monkey said:
This is a rather small sample survey, but at least it was carried out with due diligence.
ha ha i think i need learn to drive!
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
I've never really felt the need to drive, I can walk the vast majority of places, cycle the ones too far to walk and use a taxi if I need to carry something bulky/heavy.
As I can carry a fair weight on my back, and have cycled almost 100 miles in a day before (buggered my legs up a bit, but still!) the use of taxis is fairly limited. Plus I have a motorbike if I'm feeling lazy but it gets used maybe once every 2 months.
As I can carry a fair weight on my back, and have cycled almost 100 miles in a day before (buggered my legs up a bit, but still!) the use of taxis is fairly limited. Plus I have a motorbike if I'm feeling lazy but it gets used maybe once every 2 months.
lol but i wouldn't walk with my doughter for hospital appointment in Cannock 
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Yeah, you do need transport sometimes!
EDIT: Of course, for the shorter journeys if there is a few of you a taxi is usually cheaper and more convenient. With us its usually 2 adults and 2 kids, so a bus is 6 or 7 quid a time.
EDIT: Of course, for the shorter journeys if there is a few of you a taxi is usually cheaper and more convenient. With us its usually 2 adults and 2 kids, so a bus is 6 or 7 quid a time.
80's kid
Active Member
The single journey prices are OTT.
We buy the Midlands 4-Weekly Saver online as it's £5 cheaper than the shop price.
The wife likes to shop around the various towns & citys, so between us we make about £100 worth of journeys on that £50 ticket through the four week period. (Just wish some of the drivers were a bit friendlier).
We buy the Midlands 4-Weekly Saver online as it's £5 cheaper than the shop price.
The wife likes to shop around the various towns & citys, so between us we make about £100 worth of journeys on that £50 ticket through the four week period. (Just wish some of the drivers were a bit friendlier).
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
£1.60 for the shorter journeys, but that won't take you all that far. For journeys around 1 to 1 1/2 miles bus is in competition with walking, so you would expect a drop in fare payers on those journeystek-monkey said:
There's a long winded answer to that........
Typically speaking, free concessions are around 30 to 40% of bus passengers (obviously this varies between operators and between areas), so represent a fair old chunk of income.
Operators are paid for each OAP they carry. But technically they aren't paid for all of them. The law says an operator must be left financially "no better, no worse off" than if there were no free concession at all. So they must be no worse off than in a world where everyone paid their own fares - however, this world is entirely hypothetical since it has been a very long time since everyone paid their own fares! In broad terms, there is a payment per concessionary journey based upon the average fare paid by everyone else. But..... because OAPs have a free pass they travel lots more than they would if they paid a fare. This is "generated travel". An estimate is made of generated travel and operators are not paid for those generated journeys, which are quite a substantial number. In other words, an estimate of how many journeys OAPs would make in the hypothetical fare paying world is made and only those journeys are paid for.
The Department for Transport produces the guidance on calculating how much operators should be paid.... The long and short of that is that from April this year they revised it which resulted in operators receiving significantly less payment for concessionary passengers - so they get the pleasure of carrying the same number of passengers for less money! Arguably operators have been really done over here by the government. So with a drop in income, bus operators are left with two choices: increase fares or cut service or both.
The other side effect of OAP free concessions is the average fare business. As they bus operators are paid based on the average everyone else pays, the fares we all pay affects how much they get in for OAPs. The way the calculation now works is that if fares go up, payment per OAP doesn't go up in proportion - i.e. a hefty increase is needed to generate more concessionary income. After all passengers not paying a fare are not price sensitive...
As to whether everyone pays these fares - no they don't. Cash single and return fares are a declining proportion of most bus companies income. Increasingly they are structuring fares to push as many passengers as possible to pre-paid weekly / monthly tickets, which is why a monthly pass is so much cheaper per journey.
I would say that free concessions are by no means the only reason for rising fares - bus operators are seeing huge increases in fuel price and in April the amount of fuel duty rebate they get will be cut by government.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Unfortunately the economics of running big buses peak times and small buses off peak doesn't stack up! In the years after deregulation it was put to the test in several towns over a period of years and the theory didn't work in practice.The Stafford Beast said:
If you only run big buses at peak times, they are sat in the depot during the day doing nothing and earning nothing, so you would have to recoup all their costs from peak time revenue.
Minibuses (of the 16 seat sort of variety) still cost a fair bit to put on the road. A £120,000 big bus will last a great deal more years than a £40,000 minibus, so in the long term very little saving in capital cost is to be had. Also, labour and fuel are a big chunk of operating cost - the driver costs the same whether he's driving a 16 seater or a 40 seater.
It is more economical to have bigger buses on the road all day than to have two lots of buses for peak and off peak work.
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady
Well-Known Forumite
I remember when it cost 45p! And even then I thought it was dear!
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Well, don't think it needed an enormous investigation to reach the not very startling conclusion that there is a lack of competition....gilesjuk said:
However, the Competition Commission are quite frankly barking if they think more on-the-road competition is the answer. As they have stopped short of suggesting a franchising system, their recommendations will do very little to improve matters.
citricsquid
Well-Known Forumite
I went from town to Silkmore lane to visit my parents on the bus, the price had gone up from £1.20 the last time I used it to £1.40, now it's going up to £1.60? Yeesh. I remember when it was about 60p.
