Illiterate school-leavers and workless households are destabilising UK economy

tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
So sod schools, only send kids we think will get on well and let the others stay at home? I dread to think of the home schooling some would receive, but maybe a dumbed down population is what we need. People already do things like vote for a certain party just because their parents do, without a varied set of influences that can only get worse.
 
United57

United57

Well-Known Forumite
From 2003 on poor parenting

Many youngsters face a "disrupted and dishevelled" upbringing, without proper discipline or stimulation, according to the Chief Inspector of Schools, David Bell.

Communication and behavioural skills among five-year-olds are now at an all-time low, with some not even able to speak properly when they start school, he said.

In an interview with the Sunday Telegraph, Mr Bell said: "For many young people school is the most stable part of what can be quite disrupted and dishevelled lives.

"This should worry us because if children don't all start at broadly the same point, we should not be surprised if the gap widens as they go through the education system."

Mr Bell said parents fail to impose proper discipline in the home and simply put children in front of the television rather than talk and play with them.

He warned it leads to poor behaviour in class and the picture in primary schools around the country was that children were less well prepared than ever.

While classroom standards are rising, parents are doing little to support the work of teachers and that can lead to lasting problems, he added.

"Primary schools can motivate and contain youngsters, but if those youngsters do not have the proper basic literacy and numeracy skills when they go to secondary school, they will drift off the rails," he said.

Primary headteacher Monica Galt, from Manchester, told the newspaper some children do not


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-194308/Poor-parenting-damaging-children.html#ixzz1wWuj9bk3
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Its odd that with advances in psychology and technology we have not really raised the bar of education, we have instead widened the spectrum. We have more top achievers than ever, but more illiterates as well. The only conclusion I can gather is that those underachievers should be taught in a fashion similar to 30 years ago, as that would get more of them able to read and write.

You can't blame the parents really, its hard for them to teach anything at home if they themselves are also thick as pig ****. Sure the ones with brighter parents stand a chance, but if your parents aren't very clever then school is your only chance really.
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
tek-monkey said:
but if your parents aren't very clever then school is your only chance really.
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The most important decision in my educational background was when my father decided to join the Air Force - without that, I would have grown up on a council estate in Dublin and have been in prison several times by now, I'm sure. My ten schools had little to do with it. It was more to do with the horizons that became visible. We lived in Scotland, Malta, Cyprus and a good few rural places around England. Most of my real education occurred after school, especially in Cyprus where we finished at 1pm - then it was off out until dark.

A lot of people, including me at times, will deride 'community projects' as woolly, pointless, wishful-thinking - but, without changing people's prospects, their prospects will remain the same.

Schools are only a very small part of education.
 
W

Wolfenrook

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
So sod schools, only send kids we think will get on well and let the others stay at home? I dread to think of the home schooling some would receive, but maybe a dumbed down population is what we need. People already do things like vote for a certain party just because their parents do, without a varied set of influences that can only get worse.
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Nobody actually suggested that Tek. What was said was maybe some kids are starting too soon, that parents need to try to take a larger role in educating their children (if thick as pig.... you can still attend meetings at the school etc) and most importantly that eduction needs to be child centred and NOT just a generic factory approach like most schools currently use.

As to quotes from the Daily Mail, just why? Nobody in their right mind believes anything they read in that garbage sheet.

Ade
 
United57

United57

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
Its odd that with advances in psychology and technology we have not really raised the bar of education, we have instead widened the spectrum. We have more top achievers than ever, but more illiterates as well. The only conclusion I can gather is that those underachievers should be taught in a fashion similar to 30 years ago, as that would get more of them able to read and write.

You can't blame the parents really, its hard for them to teach anything at home if they themselves are also thick as pig ****. Sure the ones with brighter parents stand a chance, but if your parents aren't very clever then school is your only chance really.
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Agree with you. If you think about it a lot of these people have everthing given to them and take no responsibility. They probably blame others for being "thick"!
 
United57

United57

Well-Known Forumite
Wolfenrook said:
What was said was maybe some kids are starting too soon, that parents need to try to take a larger role in educating their children


Ade
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The last government tried to get kids in to school earlier because they were aware that some parents were not helping their children with learning. They set up sure starts to support parents to get them to take an interest in their kids. The aim was to give children from deprived areas a step up the ladder.

We all look at the Finish model but parents are probably more active in supporting their children.

Look at the way some people react with their children, screaming at them in the street. The classic for me is the multi tasking mother with a pram, 3 children crossing the road, chatting on a mobile and fag in hand.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Wolfenrook said:
Nobody actually suggested that Tek. What was said was maybe some kids are starting too soon, that parents need to try to take a larger role in educating their children (if thick as pig.... you can still attend meetings at the school etc) and most importantly that eduction needs to be child centred and NOT just a generic factory approach like most schools currently use.

As to quotes from the Daily Mail, just why? Nobody in their right mind believes anything they read in that garbage sheet.

Ade
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Who will pay for this child centred teaching? There is very little time put aside for teachers to plan different tasks for different students, and you can't do it in the classroom as you have 30 other kids to deal with. Teachers are being cut, because there is no money to pay for them. Unless we cut spending in other areas I don't see how we get this extra funding, and if we are effectively making teachers do the things that a decent parent should be doing for their own kids then the most effective place to take the money from will be parents themselves.

EDIT: And if kids are failing, I don't believe its because they start too soon. More a workshy attitude that has already festered in the 5 years of their life before they hit school, and is allowed to carry on by the parents. If a kid see's that the adults don't bother, they won't bother either.
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
This excerpt from ITV1's The Chase is quoted in the current Private Eye, in the Dumb Britain section..

Private Eye said:
Bradley Walsh: Still found in many English place names, "mere" is an old word for what geographical feature? Is it a forest, a hill or a lake?

(Contestant selects answer.)

Walsh: You've put "forest".

Contestant: As someone who's done geography and is teaching it, I really should get this right.
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My Name is URL

My Name is URL

Well-Known Forumite
Wow, thats one raw nerve i've hit upon without even intending to.....

Wolfenrook said:
I for one believe we are probably doing a better job of raising our kids than your parents did with you, or that you would do with your own kids.
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A laughable belief since you don't know me from Adam, nor I you.

Wolfenrook said:
I also believe that you should stop trying to dictate to people how they live their lives, go target your vitriol at the people who deserve it, eg. the smokers, the excessive drinkers and the politicians.
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Where on earth did I try to dictate how people should live their lives - if you mean saying people shouldn't all be able to have a million kids, then I stand by it... but don't you change your selfish little "all about me" attitude.... and when the world population hits 50 billion, or 100 billion, good luck to your kids or grand kids or great grand kids finding food to eat and water to drink.

Also laughable that I apparently shouldn't tell you how to live your life, but you are happy to tell me to go and pick on smokers, excessive drinkers and politicians... double standards....

Wolfenrook said:
If you don't want people to take offense, don't make offensive posts. Saying things like "please don't take offense" or "no offense meant" when you post something you know somebody will find offensive does not excuse you, so either man up and admit you intended offense and don't really care, or don't make offensive posts
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Whatever I post, it seems you are determined to take offense so that would be very difficult. However I said please don't take offense, because that part wasn't aimed at you in particular hence "but thats a world problem".

I also said not to take offense because I know people are very protective over their kids, as they should be....

I give up
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
My Name is URL said:
Also laughable that I apparently shouldn't tell you how to live your life, but you are happy to tell me to go and pick on smokers, excessive drinkers and politicians... double standards....
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I'm an excessive drinker, but I fund it entirely myself. Not sure why anyone should have a problem with that, unless you count the possible medical issues in later life but at least I'm slim and healthy now so not costing them anything. I pay my taxes, if anything you could say I deserve to have medical treatment?

Meh, its the weekend. Who cares, I'm getting ratted and eating a curry :D
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
United57 said:
I must confess it was only until I moved to Shropshire that I discovered what a mere was.
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Bit of a clue in Windermere, Grasmere, Buttermere, Thirlmere, etc - don't worry, nobody will have died if you haven't spotted that - but, hopefully, you're not being payed taxpayer's money to teach geography.
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
I have tried to independently read the report from the OP but can't find it - can anyone (Gramaisc) put a link to this 'report' up? I find myself being slightly unconvinced by the conclusions in the absence of the evidence to support it.

From what i can discern there is some cause for optimism in the case of literacy. Reading this it would seem that literacy rates are improving - it will take a bit of time for this improvement to work itself through the 'system' and become apparent, but only the amount of time that the OP's story calls for.

As for the rest of it, quite a lot of children do well enough at school and come out the other end in quite the way we would wish them to do so. How to make it better? Three words - Class, Size and Small.

Four more words - Not, Going, To and Happen.
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Well before doing so i can tell you for a start that that is not the organisation referred to in the Mail.
 
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