proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Lengthy but worth a read nonetheless.
http://news.sky.com/story/ireland-the-brexit-riddle-britain-forgot-11145289
http://news.sky.com/story/ireland-the-brexit-riddle-britain-forgot-11145289
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Leave or Remain?
- Thread starter andy w
- Start date
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
We wanted control of our borders, we wanted to be able to choose who came in or out. That means a Berlin Wall style affair in Ireland surely? Can't take our country back but leave the back door open, you'd have to be a retard to find that acceptable!
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
For a start the jungle wasn't EU migrants, we've always tried to keep non-EU out so that will be no different. But anyone from the EU can just wander into NI no questions asked, and are therefore now in the UK.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
If you are at Calais, you would have to pass through the UK to get to Ireland. The Channel crossing has a much higher traffic flow and in a very constrained area - you could even actually walk to Calais from Syria. The route from France through the Republic into NI and then GB is used, but on a much smaller scale, due to the practical difficulties and the lack of large-scale organisation by trafficking gangs. I don't use the northern ferries, but a cursory watch of how people are "randomly selected" at Holyhead would suggest that they are aware of the potential issue. One part of the situation which might work in the UK's favour is that the scale of racism in NI is such that people often return to the Republic, rather than travel onwards.
Mikinton
Well-Known Forumite
I was just suggesting that though there has been a "back door" for anyone who can get themselves into Europe to use, they don't seem to have used it in the sort of numbers likely to draw attention. I'm guessing this "back door" will close with Brexit (though quite where is anyone's guess).
I've only ever entered the UK through an airport, and it's always been a case of (essentially) "EU Passport" or "Non-EU Passport". I guess that'll change to "UK Passport" or "Non-UK Passport" through English, Scots and Welsh ports and airports.
ETA Do they do passport checks on the Belfast to Liverpool or Cairnryan ferries?
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
They don't even do passport checks on Holyhead/Dublin or Pembroke/Rosslare.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Lengthier, but fascinating.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
I think it's fair to say that we all have seen it too late.
Those that wanted to stay, even if they saw it, didn't make enough of it, those that wanted to leave didn't see it at all.
It's intractable.
Could it please be the thing that brings us all to our senses?
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Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
I would be interested to hear the views of a leaver who has had their opinion changed by consideration of this issue - if you can find one - anywhere.
I don't think that it would be given much credence by any that I know.
Mikinton
Well-Known Forumite
And it really shouldn't have been.
They should have got some company to host a simulation of the issues, with people who understand the Government's position (LOL), the remainers, the leavers, the Scots, the Ulster Unionists, Sinn Fein, moderate Ulstermen, the Republic of Ireland, the EU (maybe two - one for Germany/France and one for Poland etc), and the rest of the world (maybe two - one for developed nations and one for developing nations). They could then sit round a table and "wargame" the issues until they felt they understood them, had a pragmatic way forward, and have several fall-backs just in case.
No surprises.
The Hawk
Well-Known Forumite
I think everyone is forgetting why the referendum was held:
- David Cameron offered the referendum in order to win the election (which he did) and because he knew we'd vote to remain. Therefore, there was no need to plan for any other eventuality.
- Theresa May then grabbed the leadership, knew she needed to put the brexit rebels, in her own party, in their place, and realised that, if she called a quick election, Labour, under Jeremy Corbyn, would be annihilated.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
Some of the Commonwealth that the UK was going to trade with don't seem 100% behind it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42121442 - Indian enthusiasm has been notably lacking.
Noah
Well-Known Forumite
Most of the Commonwealth remember how we shat on them when we joined the EU
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
It took six months and a lot of work but we’ve caved completely, says David Davis
BREXIT minister David Davis has proudly told Britain that after six months of tough negotiating he has given in to every single one of the EU’s demands.
Davis, who turned up to negotiations in June with a blank notepad and a hopeful expression, promised that nobody could have fought harder or achieved less than he did.
He continued: “From the first day, when I conceded that negotiations would proceed exactly as the EU had decided and then spent months trying to reverse that, I have been massively out of my depth.
“For fruitless meeting after fruitless meeting, I have vainly insisted that things that were never going to happen should happen, no matter how clear it was that I was wrong.
“And, finally, after battling through our own reality-denying pigheadness, we have achieved what we could have achieved on day one by capitulating utterly.
“Now we have caved on the divorce bill, look forward to me caving on EU citizens’ rights and Northern Ireland in short order. Certainly before Christmas.”
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Whilst the Devil is in the Detail, one rather baulks at the man becoming recognised in this way.
Shurely DD should actually be PP?
If future students are interested in the concept of the 'Peter Principle', they could not hope to find a more 'text book' example.
