Alex Salmond is certainly a brilliant operator - wish he was a leader in England. Should Scotland be independent? Well Alex certainly wants more powers for Scottish parliament and doesn't want to have a "no" vote. I think he doesn't believe he can get a "yes" vote soon and so wants to delay. If he gets more powers he will then move to an independence vote. However, Cameron knows what he is doing and is determined that he will only have "yes/no" on the ballot paper. So, it's stale mate at present as to when and the wording of a referendum. It really depends on how much oil there is around Scotland. I think they will be independent eventually and we can stop subsidising their education, etc.
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Should Scotland Be Independant?
- Thread starter Hetairoi
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I think the SNP have been found out ,they don't want complete independence, standing alone and their own currency, they want to take devolutoin to the max and want that option included on the referrendom because they know a straight yes or no would go against them. Made me giggle the other day when a poll said that more english want scotish independence than scots.I am not one one of them, Britain is stronger united, geographically and culturely we are tied and we should celebrate the union. That said I believe it is up to the scots to decide whether they want to go alone or not.
The Scots will probably vote yes just to spite us even if they are not financially better off!
If they have forgotten it was their financial mess that got them into the 'Union' in the first place, not because we invaded and conquered them.
Look what a mess the Stuart (Scottish) kings of England made!
If they have forgotten it was their financial mess that got them into the 'Union' in the first place, not because we invaded and conquered them.
Look what a mess the Stuart (Scottish) kings of England made!
The 17th Century probably shaped the British Isles like no other and whilst both Charles the First and James the Second are looked upon as headstrong failures, the same can't be said of the two other Stuart kings. Indeed Charles the Second seen the Restoration, the rebuilding of London after the Great Fire, and parliamentary democracy that ended the Monarch's right to usurp parliament.
Noah
Well-Known Forumite
Although equally part of the Union, England has not been allowed a vote. Is this because they suspected that Scotland would vote No and England would vote Yes - leaving them with more than something of a problem.
Not sure about James I, he was the one who really banged on about Divine Right and convinced his son about it. He had a great deal to do with the witchcraft panic and the Cabal wasn't that good. As for Charlie II, written on the Bedchamber Door of Charles II by James Wilmott, 2nd Earl of Rochester -
Here lies our sovereign lord the king,
Whose word no man relies on;
He never says a foolish thing,
Nor ever does a wise one.
Not sure about James I, he was the one who really banged on about Divine Right and convinced his son about it. He had a great deal to do with the witchcraft panic and the Cabal wasn't that good. As for Charlie II, written on the Bedchamber Door of Charles II by James Wilmott, 2nd Earl of Rochester -
Here lies our sovereign lord the king,
Whose word no man relies on;
He never says a foolish thing,
Nor ever does a wise one.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
Did the British Empire ever include New Caledonia? It was French*, I thought..
* and still is..
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
Is Independant like Independent but with a pendant?
Like those really old long triangular things you used to see in mountain cafés on the continent, with a fringe, and thirty years of dust?
And an owl
Like those really old long triangular things you used to see in mountain cafés on the continent, with a fringe, and thirty years of dust?
And an owl
Prawn cocktail
Well-Known Forumite
The Scottish oil isn't going to last for much longer. I tend too believe that the Scottish politicians are hoping that this will make them a rich country. I'm not sure that they have a plan B for when it's gone.
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
It's OK I have fixed the result to be a NO, however..
The 67 years since the end of World War 2 have seen 18 General Elections to the Westminster Parliament, with the following outcomes (sources below):
1945 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 146
Labour majority without any Scottish MPs in Parliament: 143
NO CHANGE WITHOUT SCOTTISH MPS
1950 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 5
Without Scottish MPs: 2
NO CHANGE
1951 Conservative govt (Churchill/Eden)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 17
Without Scottish MPs: 16
NO CHANGE
1955 Conservative govt (Eden/Macmillan)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 60
Without Scottish MPs: 61
NO CHANGE
1959 Conservative govt (Macmillan/Douglas-Home)
————————————————————————
Conservative majority: 100
Without Scottish MPs: 109
NO CHANGE
1964 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 4
Without Scottish MPs: -11
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY OF 1
(Con 280, Lab 274, Lib 5)
1966 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 98
Without Scottish MPs: 77
NO CHANGE
1970 Conservative govt (Heath)
——————————————–
Conservative majority: 30
Without Scottish MPs: 55
NO CHANGE
1974 Minority Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————————
Labour majority: -33
Without Scottish MPs: -42
POSSIBLE CHANGE – LABOUR MINORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MINORITY
(Without Scots: Con 276, Lab 261, Lib 11, Others 16)
1974b Labour govt (Wilson/Callaghan)
—————————————————–
Labour majority: 3
Without Scottish MPs: -8
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO LABOUR MINORITY
(Lab 278 Con 261 Lib 10 others 15)
1979 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 43
Without Scottish MPs: 70
NO CHANGE
1983 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 144
Without Scottish MPs: 174
NO CHANGE
1987 Conservative govt (Thatcher/Major)
——————————————————
Conservative majority: 102
Without Scottish MPs: 154
NO CHANGE
1992 Conservative govt (Major)
———————————————
Conservative majority: 21
Without Scottish MPs: 71
NO CHANGE
1997 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 179
Without Scottish MPs: 139
NO CHANGE
2001 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 167
Without Scottish MPs: 129
NO CHANGE
2005 Labour govt (Blair/Brown)
——————————————–
Labour majority: 66
Without Scottish MPs: 43
NO CHANGE
2010 Coalition govt (Cameron)
——————————————
Conservative majority: -38
Without Scottish MPs: 19
CHANGE: CON-LIB COALITION TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY, SO OUR ARSES WOULD HAVE BEEN RAMMED GOOD AND PROPER BY NOW HAD SCOTLAND BEEN INDEPENDENT OR EVEN INDEPENDANT
Back to you in our Westminster studio, Laura Kuenssberg
The 67 years since the end of World War 2 have seen 18 General Elections to the Westminster Parliament, with the following outcomes (sources below):
1945 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 146
Labour majority without any Scottish MPs in Parliament: 143
NO CHANGE WITHOUT SCOTTISH MPS
1950 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 5
Without Scottish MPs: 2
NO CHANGE
1951 Conservative govt (Churchill/Eden)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 17
Without Scottish MPs: 16
NO CHANGE
1955 Conservative govt (Eden/Macmillan)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 60
Without Scottish MPs: 61
NO CHANGE
1959 Conservative govt (Macmillan/Douglas-Home)
————————————————————————
Conservative majority: 100
Without Scottish MPs: 109
NO CHANGE
1964 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 4
Without Scottish MPs: -11
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY OF 1
(Con 280, Lab 274, Lib 5)
1966 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 98
Without Scottish MPs: 77
NO CHANGE
1970 Conservative govt (Heath)
——————————————–
Conservative majority: 30
Without Scottish MPs: 55
NO CHANGE
1974 Minority Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————————
Labour majority: -33
Without Scottish MPs: -42
POSSIBLE CHANGE – LABOUR MINORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MINORITY
(Without Scots: Con 276, Lab 261, Lib 11, Others 16)
1974b Labour govt (Wilson/Callaghan)
—————————————————–
Labour majority: 3
Without Scottish MPs: -8
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO LABOUR MINORITY
(Lab 278 Con 261 Lib 10 others 15)
1979 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 43
Without Scottish MPs: 70
NO CHANGE
1983 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 144
Without Scottish MPs: 174
NO CHANGE
1987 Conservative govt (Thatcher/Major)
——————————————————
Conservative majority: 102
Without Scottish MPs: 154
NO CHANGE
1992 Conservative govt (Major)
———————————————
Conservative majority: 21
Without Scottish MPs: 71
NO CHANGE
1997 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 179
Without Scottish MPs: 139
NO CHANGE
2001 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 167
Without Scottish MPs: 129
NO CHANGE
2005 Labour govt (Blair/Brown)
——————————————–
Labour majority: 66
Without Scottish MPs: 43
NO CHANGE
2010 Coalition govt (Cameron)
——————————————
Conservative majority: -38
Without Scottish MPs: 19
CHANGE: CON-LIB COALITION TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY, SO OUR ARSES WOULD HAVE BEEN RAMMED GOOD AND PROPER BY NOW HAD SCOTLAND BEEN INDEPENDENT OR EVEN INDEPENDANT
Back to you in our Westminster studio, Laura Kuenssberg
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
They all wear civvies these days and we have a nice vegetable garden we can visit, where most of the population dwell
But thanks for the advice all the same
Laurie61
Well-Known Forumite
I find the whole thing a bit ludicrous, were the scot's marching through the streets demanding independence 
. I don't believe voting snp was a vote for independence as Salmond states and why is it you can have multiple votes for independence but no vote, after a yes vote, to go back to a union ? Hopefully common sense will prevail and Mr salmond can be moved to Saint Helena 
. I don't believe voting snp was a vote for independence as Salmond states and why is it you can have multiple votes for independence but no vote, after a yes vote, to go back to a union ? Hopefully common sense will prevail and Mr salmond can be moved to Saint Helena 
This thread was originally a poll, but unfortunately poll data didn't survive the Great Upgrade of 2011 (as per the edit in the original post).
Therefore, I have decided to close this thread, and start a new one, with poll, here:
Should Scotland be independent?
Therefore, I have decided to close this thread, and start a new one, with poll, here:
Should Scotland be independent?
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