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Stafford Hospital - What a car crash
- Thread starter Tumble weed
- Start date
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
I don't think anyone has said anything like that. I would hope that the vast majority of those in the caring professions WOULD care about their jobs and their patients, just like Pete1983.
However, the fact remains that that a significant number of people at all levels DID NOT care and this resulted in up to 12oo people losing their lives, (often in appalling circumstances) over and above what 'normal' hospital mortality rates would lead you to expect at Stafford, and this is symptomatic of what is coming to light across significant parts of the NHS as a whole.
Care at Stafford is still patchy (as demonstrated by the above post from staffordjas. I have witnessed this for myself as well first hand. I really feel for those that are slogging their guts out trying to do a decent job, day in day out, when others are still bringing their profession into disrepute.
Lack of care/professionalism/negligence/forgetfulness/evil, call it what you want. The fact is that this isn't the same as when a secretary makes a spelling mistake, or a dustman forgets to collect a bin one week, or a postman steals some mail. The consequences when it is someone working at the NHS can be disastrous, as they can for the air traffic control example I mentioned above.
Would you get on a plane to go on your hols if there was evidence to show that although many air traffic controllers did their job well, a significant number do not? After all, what's a mid-air collision matter in the grand scheme of things just because a controller was sending a text message to a mate at the time he could have prevented it?
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Indeed it is. But New Cross can be a different kettle of fish, depending on the ward/department you go to.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
I won't pretend to know anything about the extra stresses of working at a hospital, cause i don't.
One thing i do know, and i dare say most people who have worked in an environment that relies on a 'team effort' do also, is that what matters above all is the culture of that environment. If a culture of care for what one is doing becomes established it will be maintained, if a culture of f**k-it-that'll-do becomes established, it will likewise be maintained.
The question is; how do you encourage the former and discourage the latter?
I very much doubt that more tiers of upper-level management forms any part of the answer, but what do i know? It will be interesting to see what Francis has to say about it.
sarsaparilla
Well-Known Forumite
You canonly ever speak as you find and I have to say that all my experiences of Stafford hospital have been positive.
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21594557
Andy Burnham backs NHS boss David Nicholson
Shadow health secretary Andy Burnham has said NHS boss Sir David Nicholson should remain in post.
Sir David has come under pressure to resign as chief executive of the NHS following the public inquiry into the failings at Stafford Hospital.
He was briefly the boss of the Regional Health Authority overseeing the hospital while death rates were high.
Mr Burnham said David Cameron had been right to defend Mr Nicholson and it was "important to see the overall context".
Campaigners have called for Sir David to quit his £270,000 post, which he has held for six years, following the public inquiry into the failings.
'Lessons to learn'
The Francis Report found abuse and neglect led to the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of patients at the hospital between 2005 and 2008.
Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie has tabled a motion in the House of Commons calling for Sir David to resign because he "had overall responsibility for Mid Staffordshire NHS Trust during the period investigated in the Francis Inquiry".
She is calling for a full investigation into what he knew about what was happening at the time.
Following the publication of the report into the scandal, Prime Minister David Cameron backed Sir David, saying he should not be "made a scapegoat for what went wrong in Mid Staffordshire".
"He has apologised. He has said there are lessons to learn. He wants the NHS to learn them," Mr Cameron said.
Asked about about his view on whether Mr Nicholson should continue in his role, Mr Burnham said: "The prime minister has said what he wants to say on David Nicholson and I think he is right.
"Everyone has got to look at the Francis Report, absorb its findings and take appropriate action and I think everyone has got lessons to learn.
"As far as I could see the report didn't say that anybody knowingly ignored warnings.
"The NHS overall, if you think back to where waiting lists were 10 years ago, where A&E was, the NHS has made big improvements but its not perfect and things sadly go wrong from time to time. I think it is important to see the overall context."
Andy Burnham backs NHS boss David Nicholson
Shadow health secretary Andy Burnham has said NHS boss Sir David Nicholson should remain in post.
Sir David has come under pressure to resign as chief executive of the NHS following the public inquiry into the failings at Stafford Hospital.
He was briefly the boss of the Regional Health Authority overseeing the hospital while death rates were high.
Mr Burnham said David Cameron had been right to defend Mr Nicholson and it was "important to see the overall context".
Campaigners have called for Sir David to quit his £270,000 post, which he has held for six years, following the public inquiry into the failings.
'Lessons to learn'
The Francis Report found abuse and neglect led to the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of patients at the hospital between 2005 and 2008.
Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie has tabled a motion in the House of Commons calling for Sir David to resign because he "had overall responsibility for Mid Staffordshire NHS Trust during the period investigated in the Francis Inquiry".
She is calling for a full investigation into what he knew about what was happening at the time.
Following the publication of the report into the scandal, Prime Minister David Cameron backed Sir David, saying he should not be "made a scapegoat for what went wrong in Mid Staffordshire".
"He has apologised. He has said there are lessons to learn. He wants the NHS to learn them," Mr Cameron said.
Asked about about his view on whether Mr Nicholson should continue in his role, Mr Burnham said: "The prime minister has said what he wants to say on David Nicholson and I think he is right.
"Everyone has got to look at the Francis Report, absorb its findings and take appropriate action and I think everyone has got lessons to learn.
"As far as I could see the report didn't say that anybody knowingly ignored warnings.
"The NHS overall, if you think back to where waiting lists were 10 years ago, where A&E was, the NHS has made big improvements but its not perfect and things sadly go wrong from time to time. I think it is important to see the overall context."
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
M.D. said:
M.D. said:
M.D. said:
[quote]Let’s take a simple example. ‘Fractured neck of femur’ (FNOF) is a fairly common result of falls in elderly people – and a serious one. Out of every 10 people, nationally, who go into hospital with this condition (which in layman’s terms might be called a ‘broken hip’), on average one will die as a result of complications arising from the initial condition. If a hospital loses more than 10 patients with FNOF for every 100 it treats, it will have a relatively high HSMR for that condition. Each condition has its own rate of expected deaths.[/quote]
M.D. said:
M.D. said:
[quote]At this point it’s worth addressing one of the most persistent myths of the ‘Mid Staffs phenomenon’: that ‘neglected’ patients were so thirsty, and so ignored, that they had to drink the water from flower vases.[/quote]
M.D said:
M.D said:
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
M.D. said:
Death is only one measure of the quality of healthcare, but it's a crucially important one. It's relatively easy to spot, one-off, irreversible and - when avoidable - it's the biggest harm the NHS can do to you.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
Kark asks Taylor about how the HSMRs can legitimately be used and Taylor fudges initially – but when he is asked directly whether HSMRs can provide an effective measure of safety, he backtracks and says it can only identify where there is a risk that something might be wrong.
M.D. said:
It was a comparison of death rates in different units that revealed the Bristol heart scandal...
A key lesson from Bristol was that a vital step to a safe NHS was accurate, publicly available comparative data on death across the service, combined with a duty to investigate higher-than-expected death rates quickly and thoroughly...
In hospitals, at least, Standardised Mortality Ratios (HSMRs) have been measured since the mid 1990's... The HMSRs [for Mid Staffs] from 2001-02 to 2007-08 were all significantly high. These figures were in the public domain, available to all who cared to look.. The Department of Health and successive Labour health secretaries (Alan Milburn; John Reid; Patricia Hewitt; Alan Johnson; and Burnham) should have been monitoring and discussing them with their NHS chief executives.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
Let’s take a simple example. ‘Fractured neck of femur’ (FNOF) is a fairly common result of falls in elderly people – and a serious one. Out of every 10 people, nationally, who go into hospital with this condition (which in layman’s terms might be called a ‘broken hip’), on average one will die as a result of complications arising from the initial condition. If a hospital loses more than 10 patients with FNOF for every 100 it treats, it will have a relatively high HSMR for that condition. Each condition has its own rate of expected deaths.
M.D. said:
Another way to reduce mortality rate alerts is to change the diagnosis. Patients come in with a fractured hip, and the longer the delay in operating, the more likely they will die, often from pneumonia. But if they have the pneumonia longer than the fractured hip, their primary diagnosis can be recorded as the former, and they vanish from the hip fracture mortality alerts.
Using this method, the number of people dying after fracturing their femur at Mid Staffs fell from 87% to 40%, even though the number of people dying didn't change...
By 2009, a patient with a hip fracture was seemingly five times less likely to die if admitted to Mid Staffs than to the average English hospital.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
At this point it’s worth addressing one of the most persistent myths of the ‘Mid Staffs phenomenon’: that ‘neglected’ patients were so thirsty, and so ignored, that they had to drink the water from flower vases.
M.D said:
Lest we Forget
If you only have time to read one Francis report, make it his first independent inquiry, published in February 2010. The stories behind the harm are staggering. An old man forced to stay on a commode for 55 minutes wearing only a pyjama top; a woman whose legs were "red raw" because of the effect of her uncleaned faeces; piles of soiled sheets and vomit bowls left at the ends of beds, a woman arrived at 10am to find her 96-year-old mother-in-law "completely naked... and covered with faeces... It was in her hair, her nails, her hands and on all the cot sides... it was literally everywhere and it was dried" Another woman who found her mother with faeces under her nails asked for them to be cut, but was told that it was "not in the nurses' remit to cut patients' nails".
If?
Death is only one measure of the quality of healthcare, but it's a crucially important one. It's relatively easy to spot, one-off, irreversible and - when avoidable - it's the biggest harm the NHS can do to you.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
Kark asks Taylor about how the HSMRs can legitimately be used and Taylor fudges initially – but when he is asked directly whether HSMRs can provide an effective measure of safety, he backtracks and says it can only identify where there is a risk that something might be wrong.
M.D. said:
It was a comparison of death rates in different units that revealed the Bristol heart scandal...
A key lesson from Bristol was that a vital step to a safe NHS was accurate, publicly available comparative data on death across the service, combined with a duty to investigate higher-than-expected death rates quickly and thoroughly...
In hospitals, at least, Standardised Mortality Ratios (HSMRs) have been measured since the mid 1990's... The HMSRs [for Mid Staffs] from 2001-02 to 2007-08 were all significantly high. These figures were in the public domain, available to all who cared to look.. The Department of Health and successive Labour health secretaries (Alan Milburn; John Reid; Patricia Hewitt; Alan Johnson; and Burnham) should have been monitoring and discussing them with their NHS chief executives.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
Let’s take a simple example. ‘Fractured neck of femur’ (FNOF) is a fairly common result of falls in elderly people – and a serious one. Out of every 10 people, nationally, who go into hospital with this condition (which in layman’s terms might be called a ‘broken hip’), on average one will die as a result of complications arising from the initial condition. If a hospital loses more than 10 patients with FNOF for every 100 it treats, it will have a relatively high HSMR for that condition. Each condition has its own rate of expected deaths.
M.D. said:
Another way to reduce mortality rate alerts is to change the diagnosis. Patients come in with a fractured hip, and the longer the delay in operating, the more likely they will die, often from pneumonia. But if they have the pneumonia longer than the fractured hip, their primary diagnosis can be recorded as the former, and they vanish from the hip fracture mortality alerts.
Using this method, the number of people dying after fracturing their femur at Mid Staffs fell from 87% to 40%, even though the number of people dying didn't change...
By 2009, a patient with a hip fracture was seemingly five times less likely to die if admitted to Mid Staffs than to the average English hospital.
skwalker1964 said: ↑
At this point it’s worth addressing one of the most persistent myths of the ‘Mid Staffs phenomenon’: that ‘neglected’ patients were so thirsty, and so ignored, that they had to drink the water from flower vases.
M.D said:
Lest we Forget
If you only have time to read one Francis report, make it his first independent inquiry, published in February 2010. The stories behind the harm are staggering. An old man forced to stay on a commode for 55 minutes wearing only a pyjama top; a woman whose legs were "red raw" because of the effect of her uncleaned faeces; piles of soiled sheets and vomit bowls left at the ends of beds, a woman arrived at 10am to find her 96-year-old mother-in-law "completely naked... and covered with faeces... It was in her hair, her nails, her hands and on all the cot sides... it was literally everywhere and it was dried" Another woman who found her mother with faeces under her nails asked for them to be cut, but was told that it was "not in the nurses' remit to cut patients' nails".
skwalker1964 said:
If?
Glam
Mad Cat Woman
We aren't allowed to cut nails.
I think, tho please don't quote me so to speak, it's in case we cut the nail to short and actually cut the patient. We can't do toenails either, a relative has to do them, or the chiropodist does. Some of ours needs hedge shears on their nails. if you have a patient, who has taken against staff for instance. If you're on the receiving end of a pair of talons, it don't half hurt. I've had go for mrsa testing twice now because of it.
I've just read this back to myself and it doesn't make much sense, but I think you can get the general drift.
Also, if a patient has faeces under their nails, just cutting the nails doesn't shift the stuff, you need a nail brush, infection control rules the things out, and you can't always get a cloth under the nail to shift the stuff. A good soak in the bath and a toothbrush usually does the trick.
I think, tho please don't quote me so to speak, it's in case we cut the nail to short and actually cut the patient. We can't do toenails either, a relative has to do them, or the chiropodist does. Some of ours needs hedge shears on their nails. if you have a patient, who has taken against staff for instance. If you're on the receiving end of a pair of talons, it don't half hurt. I've had go for mrsa testing twice now because of it.
I've just read this back to myself and it doesn't make much sense, but I think you can get the general drift.
Also, if a patient has faeces under their nails, just cutting the nails doesn't shift the stuff, you need a nail brush, infection control rules the things out, and you can't always get a cloth under the nail to shift the stuff. A good soak in the bath and a toothbrush usually does the trick.
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
Procurement
Regulations 257
Your health service will change in forever in six weeks
If you voted Conservative you obviously knew you voted for this
I hope you are all very pleased
Do let us know how you get on
Regulations 257
Your health service will change in forever in six weeks
If you voted Conservative you obviously knew you voted for this
I hope you are all very pleased
Do let us know how you get on
I concur with Glam, my family were advised this at North Staffs some time back, nurses do not cut nails. In relation to Floss67 remarks we don't what was wrong with the patient, but if they were able and made it to the toilet on their own then everyone who is at a hospital must take responsibility for basic hygeine and not potentially spread illness at such a place as a hospital. It is absurd.
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
As I understand it that is pretty much a blanket policy amongst hospitals. They all seem to have chiropodists on site so it shouldn't really be an issue. In much the same way you wouldn't expect a nurse to carry out physiotherapy. That's what physiotherapists are for.
John Marwood
I ♥ cryptic crosswords
Don't know where to put this as it's more personal, and not on topic
But apparently reported by a few people. that have questioned some of the things Mrs.Saint has said or asked her something ( Not insulting) they've been blocked and sent virus links, and to their followers too this from a grown women concerns me. (Yet left insulting tweets alone!! hmm)
So don't question anything she says ! or well don't click on any links, Pathetic really.
Also she tweeted this the other day before deleting it,
"putting the nursing back in nurses"
I fear for her mental health.
On a positive note, glad people are standing up for the hospital, lets hope something happens, and we ignore Mrs.Bailey.. and focus on the hospital because that's what is important and what matters.
But apparently reported by a few people. that have questioned some of the things Mrs.Saint has said or asked her something ( Not insulting) they've been blocked and sent virus links, and to their followers too this from a grown women concerns me. (Yet left insulting tweets alone!! hmm)
So don't question anything she says ! or well don't click on any links, Pathetic really.
Also she tweeted this the other day before deleting it,
"putting the nursing back in nurses"
I fear for her mental health.
On a positive note, glad people are standing up for the hospital, lets hope something happens, and we ignore Mrs.Bailey.. and focus on the hospital because that's what is important and what matters.
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Utter bollocks! Where's your evidence for this other than just Internet hearsay?
I seriously doubt Julie Bailey would have the first idea how to send virus links.
I hear its been reported by a few people that they saw pigs flying over Parkside this morning.
Must be true as there is a rumour.
Innit bruv...
Think what you want, some of the lies will come out soon enough
Deleted a lot before March 7th. you can see this yourself if you're not to stupid to work it out.
Hopefully the people that said it post something like a screenshot / evidence, one of them has said they still have the tweets on her profile, I don't know this person- so I can't go on her profile- But like I said, I hope they read here actually, and post something to prove it.
Knew I'd get someone like you responding not surprised either, does seem a bit to stupid/dodgy to be true.
Deleted a lot before March 7th. you can see this yourself if you're not to stupid to work it out.
Hopefully the people that said it post something like a screenshot / evidence, one of them has said they still have the tweets on her profile, I don't know this person- so I can't go on her profile- But like I said, I hope they read here actually, and post something to prove it.
Knew I'd get someone like you responding not surprised either, does seem a bit to stupid/dodgy to be true.
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Still waiting for your evidence to back this up. Won't be holding my breath though...
That's fair enough John I'm still waiting for proof of some things Mrs.Bailey has said too.
I'll try and get into contact with the people that have said what I posted.