Stafford shops closing - Turning into a ghost town?

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
I like tiger - interesting design and resonable prices. Picked up some lovely things for the new bathroom the other day at a fraction of the price I'd looked at online for similar items.

If you're not in tune with that design style I can see why you wouldn't like it - and I was surprised when one popped up in Stafford, but it makes perfect sense for Christmas. Like we've had pop up Hawkin's Bazaars and Past Times in the past. If I'd have been doing stockings or secret santas it would have been perfect.

But there's one in GrandCentral in Brum, and two in close proximity to my mum in Barcelona so if I need Danish designed household stuff I'll be fine.
Past times was not a pop up shop, it just failed. It was intended as a permanent venture, a development from the company's existing mail order business. Unfortunately the company's greed in opening a large number of shops in quick succession was its downfall. Like many other shops that sell items which are sometimes nice to look at but essentially serve no useful purpose (such as the tiger shop and that strange shop on the left as you enter the market arcade) they cannot attract customers in sufficient numbers to be sustainable. These shops tend to survive in affluent towns such as Bath, York, etc but are not suitable for run-down areas such as Stafford, as proved by the demise of both past times and the tiger shop, and countless others over the years.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
Stafford is not run down.
I think you'll find it is.

Half the shops are empty or boarded up, the other half have few customers. The high street is dead. The market has no stalls. The university has closed. The hospital is half closed. The courts are closing. The shire hall is closing. The fe college is controlled from Newcastle. The main car park is fenced off. The biggest supermarket in the town has never opened. The library is closed and derelict. The cinema is up for sale. Half the bus routes have been cut. The council has no idea. The MP has no interest.

To an objective observer that all adds up to 'run down'.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
I think you'll find it is.
I think you'll find it isn't and that all but two of your points are inaccurate.

Half the shops are empty or boarded up
Really? 50% of the shops? How have you arrived at this figure? Plucked from the air with no basis in fact? Somewhere on here @Gareth stated actual proven percentages some time ago and they were very favourable compared to other towns in the area. I expect he'll be along at some point and put you straight.

The high street is dead
That's why it's consistently very, very busy on a Saturday since August and why even to the casual observer it's much busier during the week than it was prior to August. Try visiting and see for yourself what the reality of the situation is.

The market has no stalls.
The market has stalls. Not as many as it should have I grant you, but to say it has no stalls is rediculous.

The university has closed
And has just been bought and is going to reopen.

The hospital is half closed.
Millions of pounds are being invested to update the wards and make them fit for providing top quality health care. Services have been realigned, for sure, but so have they at all other hospital trusts. Yes, the A&E situation is a scandal that must be resolved but to state the hospital is half shut is preposterous.

The courts are closing.
The magistrates yes, but not the Crown Court. How many other similar sized towns have a Crown Court in the first place?

The shire hall is closing
True.

The fe college is controlled from Newcastle
So what? Providing management do a better job than the last lot and provide a quality education for Stafford students, who cares if it's run from Stafford or Karachi?

The main car park is fenced off.
It isn't the main car park. However it does need to be opened.

The biggest supermarket in the town has never opened.
The biggest supermarket in town is Tesco. The building you are referring to has never been a supermarket, big or otherwise.

The library is closed and derelict.
The library is well and truly open. The old library building is closed. Time will tell if it remains so now the Town centre as a whole is picking up nicely.

The cinema is up for sale.
The current cinema is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for many years. The new, modern one being constructed will benefit the town as a whole, bringing additional folk into town to spend money.

Half the bus routes have been cut.
I've not been on a bus since 1983 I think so I neither know or care frankly. However, judging by the number of busses still around town I'd hazard a guess that 50% of bus routes have not been cut, unless you have actual evidence that your figure is accurate. For the routes that have been cut, would that be because not enough people were using the service and it wasn't economically viable?

The council has no idea.
If you mean the County Council then, it's not that they have no idea, it's that they don't give a fcuk about Stafford and never have.

If you mean the Borough Council then that isn't entirely true.

The MP has no interest.
Not sure about no interest. No clue though, definitely.

To an objective observer that all adds up to 'run down'.
To an objective observer that all adds up to the town looking like it has a bright future overall, with some areas still needing to be tackled.
 
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c0tt0nt0p

Well-Known Forumite
I think you'll find it is.

Half the shops are empty or boarded up, the other half have few customers. The high street is dead. The market has no stalls. The university has closed. The hospital is half closed. The courts are closing. The shire hall is closing. The fe college is controlled from Newcastle. The main car park is fenced off. The biggest supermarket in the town has never opened. The library is closed and derelict. The cinema is up for sale. Half the bus routes have been cut. The council has no idea. The MP has no interest.

To an objective observer that all adds up to 'run down'.

Sorry it's not run down.... Head on up to the north of England and have a wander around places like Rochdale, Dewsbury or Oldham.... They, my slightly uninformed forum user are run down.... Stafford isn't....
 

Jonah

Spouting nonsense since the day I learned to talk
I can be negative about Stafford at times but HopesDad is a true master of negativity.
 

alphagamma

Well-Known Forumite
Despite having a few new shops in a wind tunnel, much of Stafford does qualify as 'run down' according to any dictionary definition. Most of what Hope'sDad says is depressingly true. Of course there are worse places. That's irrelevant. Stafford is supposed to be a county town, but over the last thirty of forty years has turned into a repository for traffic lights. If you get past those and find somewhere to park, the Market Square and north end of the main street are often empty, the lack of any sense of civic pride being illustrated by the crumbling paving patched in with black tar.
 

zebidee

Well-Known Forumite
Despite having a few new shops in a wind tunnel

Blimey you're not wrong about the wind tunnel. Also heard some horrific noises over by Nandos, an immense vibrating that I couldn't quite believe was wind through the car park, but couldn't figure out any other source either.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
I think you'll find it isn't and that all but two of your points are inaccurate.


Really? 50% of the shops? How have you arrived at this figure? Plucked from the air with no basis in fact? Somewhere on here @Gareth stated actual proven percentages some time ago and they were very favourable compared to other towns in the area. I expect he'll be along at some point and put you straight.
I am quite sure that Gareth, as the council's mouthpiece can provide figures to prove anything you like. The best way is to walk through the town and count them.


That's why it's consistently very, very busy on a Saturday since August and why even to the casual observer it's much busier during the week than it was prior to August. Try visiting and see for yourself what the reality of the situation is.
This was the pre-Christmas rush which everywhere experiences, people looking for presents. Look again once the 'sales ' are over.


The market has stalls. Not as many as it should have I grant you, but to say it has no stalls is rediculous.
There are more empty stalls than occupied ones. The bottom end of the market is virtually a furniture storage unit now. And removing a whole section of stalls to create an owl display area does not make the stalls occupied.

And has just been bought and is going to reopen.
The university is closed and fenced off. It may at some point in the future be used as a Chinese boarding school. It will not be open as a university to which residents of Stafford could apply.


Millions of pounds are being invested to update the wards and make them fit for providing top quality health care. Services have been realigned, for sure, but so have they at all other hospital trusts. Yes, the A&E situation is a scandal that must be resolved but to state the hospital is half shut is preposterous.
Major facilities are closed. No proper maternity provision. No proper heart provision. No full time a&e provision. What a&e provision there is is likely to close imminently.


The magistrates yes, but not the Crown Court. How many other similar sized towns have a Crown Court in the first place?
Stafford is a county town. County towns have crown courts. That is one of the features of a county town.

True.


So what? Providing management do a better job than the last lot and provide a quality education for Stafford students, who cares if it's run from Stafford or Karachi? Stafford is so run down that there is not one person in the town capable of running a third rate fe college apparently.


It isn't the main car park. However it does need to be opened.
It was the main car park, and the biggest, until the council sold off the land to make money to balance the books without thinking through the consequences. It is now fenced off and shows no sign of being opened in the foreseeable future.


The biggest supermarket in town is Tesco. The building you are referring to has never been a supermarket, big or otherwise. The building was built as a supermarket. It is too large to be used as anything else


The library is well and truly open. The old library building is closed. Time will tell if it remains so now the Town centre as a whole is picking up nicely. The purpose build library, in Carnegie building, was closed many years ago along with the county library, and most of the book stock disposed of. A token library comprising a small stock of popular fiction and populist non fiction is squeezed into redundant space in the county council offices.


The current cinema is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for many years. The new, modern one being constructed will benefit the town as a whole, bringing additional folk into town to spend money.
The one surviving cinema in Stafford is up for sale and is likely to close. There is no new cinema, only a piece of waste ground for which there is planning permission for a cinema to be built in the future.


I've not been on a bus since 1983 I think so I neither know or care frankly. However, judging by the number of busses still around town I'd hazard a guess that 50% of bus routes have not been cut, unless you have actual evidence that your figure is accurate. For the routes that have been cut, would that be because not enough people were using the service and it wasn't economically viable?
Because you do not use buses does not make them irelevant. Most (i.e. More than half) of the bus routes to south Stafford areas have been cut. Most of the buses clogging up town Centre roads are from out of town passing through.


If you mean the County Council then, it's not that they have no idea, it's that they don't give a fcuk about Stafford and never have.

If you mean the Borough Council then that isn't entirely true.
The borough council is weak, powerless and ineffectual.


Not sure about no interest. No clue though, definitely.


To an objective observer that all adds up to the town looking like it has a bright future overall, with some areas still needing to be tackled.
Your reply is a master class in hype, embelishing the truth and making something out of nothing. Like all hype, it does not stand up to close scrutiny.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
Sorry it's not run down.... Head on up to the north of England and have a wander around places like Rochdale, Dewsbury or Oldham.... They, my slightly uninformed forum user are run down.... Stafford isn't....
I have never claimed that Stafford is the most run down place in the country. I simply pointed out that it is run down which, as I have proved, it is. Stafford is supppsee to be the county town, so it should be the best. But it is not. It is sadly lacking in all areas.
 
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HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
I think you'll find it isn't and that all but two of your points are inaccurate.


Really? 50% of the shops? How have you arrived at this figure? Plucked from the air with no basis in fact? Somewhere on here @@Gareth stated actual proven percentages some time ago and they were very favourable compared to other towns in the area. I expect he'll be along at some point and put you straight.
I am quite sure that Gareth, as the council's mouthpiece can provide figures to prove anything you like. The best way is to walk through the town and count them.


That's why it's consistently very, very busy on a Saturday since August and why even to the casual observer it's much busier during the week than it was prior to August. Try visiting and see for yourself what the reality of the situation is.
This was the pre-Christmas rush which everywhere experiences, people looking for presents. Look again once the 'sales ' are over.


The market has stalls. Not as many as it should have I grant you, but to say it has no stalls is rediculous.
There are more empty stalls than occupied ones. The bottom end of the market is virtually a furniture storage unit now. And removing a whole section of stalls to create an owl display area does not make the stalls occupied.

And has just been bought and is going to reopen.
The university is closed and fenced off. It may at some point in the future be used as a Chinese boarding school. It will not be open as a university to which residents of Stafford could apply.


Millions of pounds are being invested to update the wards and make them fit for providing top quality health care. Services have been realigned, for sure, but so have they at all other hospital trusts. Yes, the A&E situation is a scandal that must be resolved but to state the hospital is half shut is preposterous.
Major facilities are closed. No proper maternity provision. No proper heart provision. No full time a&e provision. What a&e provision there is is likely to close imminently.


The magistrates yes, but not the Crown Court. How many other similar sized towns have a Crown Court in the first place?
Stafford is a county town. County towns have crown courts. That is one of the features of a county town.

True.


So what? Providing management do a better job than the last lot and provide a quality education for Stafford students, who cares if it's run from Stafford or Karachi? Stafford is so run down that there is not one person in the town capable of running a third rate fe college apparently.


It isn't the main car park. However it does need to be opened.
It was the main car park, and the biggest, until the council sold off the land to make money to balance the books without thinking through the consequences. It is now fenced off and shows no sign of being opened in the foreseeable future.


The biggest supermarket in town is Tesco. The building you are referring to has never been a supermarket, big or otherwise. The building was built as a supermarket. It is too large to be used as anything else


The library is well and truly open. The old library building is closed. Time will tell if it remains so now the Town centre as a whole is picking up nicely. The purpose build library, in Carnegie building, was closed many years ago along with the county library, and most of the book stock disposed of. A token library comprising a small stock of popular fiction and populist non fiction is squeezed into redundant space in the county council offices.


The current cinema is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for many years. The new, modern one being constructed will benefit the town as a whole, bringing additional folk into town to spend money.
The one surviving cinema in Stafford is up for sale and is likely to close. There is no new cinema, only a piece of waste ground for which there is planning permission for a cinema to be built in the future.


I've not been on a bus since 1983 I think so I neither know or care frankly. However, judging by the number of busses still around town I'd hazard a guess that 50% of bus routes have not been cut, unless you have actual evidence that your figure is accurate. For the routes that have been cut, would that be because not enough people were using the service and it wasn't economically viable?
Because you do not use buses does not make them irelevant. Most (i.e. More than half) of the bus routes to south Stafford areas have been cut. Most of the buses clogging up town Centre roads are from out of town passing through.


If you mean the County Council then, it's not that they have no idea, it's that they don't give a fcuk about Stafford and never have.

If you mean the Borough Council then that isn't entirely true.
The borough council is weak, powerless and ineffectual.


Not sure about no interest. No clue though, definitely.


To an objective observer that all adds up to the town looking like it has a bright future overall, with some areas still needing to be tackled.
Your reply is a master class in hype, embelishing the truth and making something out of nothing. Like all hype, it does not stand up to close scrutiny.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
The Shirehall is derelict you say Hopesdad.....really, tell how this is????????
I did not say the shire hall is derelict, I said it is closing, which is a matter of public record. I realise that you will always instinctively defend the council, but please do your research first if you expect to have any credibility.
 

Gareth

Well-Known Forumite
Regarding the empty shops comment...again Hopes dad stats are all over the place.

The last figures released by..... had Stafford at 16% vacancy rate.....this had not included Riverside as it was not open at the time.

Tie this with the facts that the following local towns and cities have vacancy rates in the high 20-30% and it gets worse the more north you go:

Stoke
Hanley
Burslem/ Tunstall
West brom
Birmingham
Wolverhampton
Walsall
Dudley

All bigger fairing far far worse the Stafford. With all the developments going on the town centre will get better as well and this should be a positive.
 

Gareth

Well-Known Forumite
I think you'll find it is.

Half the shops are empty or boarded up, the other half have few customers. The high street is dead. The market has no stalls. The university has closed. The hospital is half closed. The courts are closing. The shire hall is closing. The fe college is controlled from Newcastle. The main car park is fenced off. The biggest supermarket in the town has never opened. The library is closed and derelict. The cinema is up for sale. Half the bus routes have been cut. The council has no idea. The MP has no interest.

To an objective observer that all adds up to 'run down'.

You clearly have no idea of the definition of run down.

There is a difference to being closed to run down you down. You using run down in completely the wrong context....but that hardly surprises me you the distinctions wrong.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
16%? So you are saying only 1 in 6 shops in Stafford is empty? Now you really have lost the plot.

Regarding the empty shops comment...again Hopes dad stats are all over the place.

The last figures released by..... had Stafford at 16% vacancy rate.....this had not included Riverside as it was not open at the time.

Tie this with the facts that the following local towns and cities have vacancy rates in the high 20-30% and it gets worse the more north you go:

Stoke
Hanley
Burslem/ Tunstall
West brom
Birmingham
Wolverhampton
Walsall
Dudley

All bigger fairing far far worse the Stafford. With all the developments going on the town centre will get better as well and this should be a positive.
%
 

JTL85

Well-Known Forumite
HopesDad, spouting bollocks as per usual.

I imagine every high street in the country has empty retail units. The way people shop has changed and it's an inevitable consequence of online trade.

Stafford is by no means run down. It's a town that has suffered from a changing economy but it is definitely recovering. The white elephant that is the Morrisons development aside, we have new shops, new places to eat (independent and national chains) a new cinema complex on the way.
 

HopesDad

Don't feed the troll
HopesDad, spouting bollocks as per usual.

I imagine every high street in the country has empty retail units. The way people shop has changed and it's an inevitable consequence of online trade.

Stafford is by no means run down. It's a town that has suffered from a changing economy but it is definitely recovering. The white elephant that is the Morrisons development aside, we have new shops, new places to eat (independent and national chains) a new cinema complex on the way.
Hahaha 'morrisons development aside.....'. You cannot just ignore a major development in the town that is a complete fiasco, costing millions of pounds and destroying houses, public toilets, the central clinic and a major car park along the way.

I suppose you would say 'town Centre aside, Stafford is a brilliant place'.
 
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