Nuclear power - Safe or not?

[Withnail]

How difficult (ie costly) is it to store the energy they produce?

The only real storage that we have is Dinorwig Pumped Storage in Wales.

If you expect me to read an entire Wikipedia entry at this time of night to sift through the info to arrive at some kind of epiphany you are much mistaken.

Just give me the facts, Ed.

 

[Gramaisc]

How difficult (ie costly) is it to store the energy they produce?

The only real storage that we have is Dinorwig Pumped Storage in Wales.

If you expect me to read an entire Wikipedia entry at this time of night to sift through the info to arrive at some kind of epiphany you are much mistaken.

Just give me the facts, Ed.

We have one means of storing excess power production. Once that's full, we're buggered, we just have to turn things off or it all goes bang.

 

[Withnail]

I like it that you pitch that at my precise level of understanding.

What would it take to increase the pre-bang storage?

 

[Gramaisc]

What would it take to increase the pre-bang storage?

Money - and suitable locations.

 

[henryscat]

The BBC article points to shortcomings in the National Grid - that a fault stopped the suprlus being pinged down to England.

 

[henryscat]

There is a limit to the amount of electrical power that you can get out, as the conductors are able to conduct up to a current limit, and the insulation will only sustain itself up to a voltage limit, therefore you have a power output limit, regardless of whatever mechanical power input you might be able to achieve.

Your car alternator lives in a world where the load is clearly definable. Whatever the lights, ignition and ancillaries require, plus a bit of current through the battery to recharge it after the starting consumption. The battery resistance will limit that anyway.
.

Somewhere in there is varying magnetic field strength to control output as well (I think!).

 

[Withnail]

What would it take to increase the pre-bang storage?

Money - and suitable locations.

A bit like Nuclear Power Stations, then.

I wonder which would be cheaper?

 

[tek-monkey]

But nuclear self generates, we'd have to run turbines plus FBBs* and still hope the wind blew.

* Fooking Big Batteries

 

[Gramaisc]

I wonder which would be cheaper?

It would be cheaper to just turn some stuff off..

 

[Gramaisc]

Explosion at French nuclear site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14883521

Interestingly, the site is pixelated on Google Earth, yet we're content to leave even Aldermaston clear enough for somebody that knows how to use a mortar accurately..

 

[Withnail]

V. interesting Horizon prog this eve on the subject.

Caught it late in the proceedings, but late indications were that safer applications were dropped in favour of weapon-development options that made the whole business more dangerous (sounds about right).

Dropping it here to make it easier to find in the morn when i might have more time - worth a watch for those interested here in the meantime.

I love the word 'meantime' - so delightfully apt - but i digress.

 

[Neon Jay]

There is a limit to the amount of electrical power that you can get out, as the conductors are able to conduct up to a current limit, and the insulation will only sustain itself up to a voltage limit, therefore you have a power output limit, regardless of whatever mechanical power input you might be able to achieve.

I realise I may have missed a part of convo here, however there are some very interesting technical & scientific developments with regard to room-temperature superconductors; as I understand it, graphene manufacturing has gotten itself to the stage where, not only are they able to produce super-conductors at temperatures above 0k, but we're also now able to produce partially biological solar panels which apparently fix themselves? The former would certainly result in a much more efficient electrical distribution system, by reducing resistance of the circuit...

Sourced from a few articles on the beeb, will try and find liks for them when I get 5, very interesting reading

 

[Gramaisc]

Watched the Al-Jalili Horizon programme last night. Right at the start he declared that nuclear power was "cheap", which does rather depend upon which costs you choose to attach to it. He also implied that Fukushima failed largely because it was an old design. The current designs will, presumably, last in service for a similar period, and who is to say that we now know everything about the various scenarios that we may have to endure at some point in that time period? These new designs will, no doubt, be better, but will include systems which are also unlikely to make the outcome cheaper.

The French waste conversion reactor seemed interesting, but it could be a long time before that has any practical effect on the waste problem. The thorium reactor path seemed interesting, but I suspect that we're too far down the 'military' reactor path to challenge the vested interests associated with uranium reactors.



I understood that 'room temperature super-conduction' has not really been shown, and that 'high-temperature super-conductivity' still needs to be under liquid nitrogen and isn't that much of a practical improvement for every-day use. Graphene does seem interesting and worth watching..

 

[Neon Jay]

I understood that 'room temperature super-conduction' has not really been shown, and that 'high-temperature super-conductivity' still needs to be under liquid nitrogen and isn't that much of a practical improvement for every-day use. Graphene does seem interesting and worth watching..

Indeed true; I think the actual figure quoted was somewhere around the -180c mark - as you say, way short of anything really useful at the moment, but a vastly higher temperature than absolute zero none-the-less.

Drawing again on the Beeb as an influence (sadly couldn't find the original article, but found a better one in the search) but THIS grabbed my interest also...

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/self-healing-solar.html


Self repairing solar-panels, anybody?

 

[Neon Jay]

The only downside being that most of that kinda tech is still in lab-stage at the moment...

 

[Gramaisc]

The thorium reactor path seemed interesting, but I suspect that we're too far down the 'military' reactor path to challenge the vested interests associated with uranium reactors.

There was a programme about the thorium reactor tonight on Radio 4 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01cjwv1

 

[Gramaisc]

Thorium receives a further push - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24638816 - one suspects that Hinkley C will be in a 'more tradtional' style..

 

[Roland]

Which would you prefer next door to you house a nuclear reactor or a wind turbine?

Now I hate wind turbine's but I would prefer it to a nuclear reactor!

 

[Gramaisc]

If people want abundant electricity they should put up with some of the consequences of it.

Why not a wind turbine on top of each electricity pylon?

There are LED street-lights about with solar and wind-powered generators on top.

 

[Roland]

Why not turn off all the motorway lights, I can not understand why they are needed when all cars have headlights.

I read a study a while back which showed that people drove slower on unlit motorways than lit motorways so you could reduce the average speed as well!