I've only read the first and last page of this thread so someone may have had a similar rant but if not here goes Whatdoes it take soooooo long to get anywhere in Stafford??? On average it's taking me around 30-40 mins to get from the tesco garage on the a449 to the ASDA roundabout on a weekday in the evening and even more on a saturday morning and I don't understand why although I'm guessing it's something to do with the vast numbers of traffic lights and the lack of inbound roads to the town centre.
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Planning and traffic in Stafford.... terrible?
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supernova
Well-Known Forumite
The traffic situation in Stafford must infuriate anyone who drives. It's caused by demand exceeding road capacity at peak times. Personally, I do my best to avoid travelling through Stafford at peak times (08:00 - 09:00 and 16:00 and 18:00 Mon-Fri and anytime between 10:00 and 17:00 on Saturdays). These are the times I find the traffic gets seriously snarled up East-West through the town. Until something is done to allow traffic to travel (in volume) from one side of Stafford to the other WITHOUT having to go through the town, I can only see it getting worse (if you can imagine such a thing).markmh said:
My Name is URL
Well-Known Forumite
Agree with this 100%supernova said:
Problem is the people in power in Stafford, the clever people they are, a) keep adding to the problem by allowing new houses / commercial property and b) will only use any addition of road capacity to add more traffic rather than to solve the current traffic problem. I.E. if they ever build the WAR or the EDR then it will only be to open up land for more development.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
The planning system is determined by government. The current proposals for changes to the system is that there should be even greater presumption in favour of the developer i.e. the government will essentially give developers free reign to go where they want and local authorities will have not a lot of choice. Developers will choose their housing sites based on profitability not what is sensible in transport planning termsgk141054 said:
More or less - yes. Though I think it is pretty unlikely an EDR will get built. But, yes a great deal of new roads are only built to open up land for development. One because it is difficult to justify most new roads purely on the basis of benefits to traffic and secondly because of where does the money come from? The government will not fund any local road scheme 100% - a minimum of 10% has to be found locally. In most cases this money will only ever be found from developer contributions.
Andreas Rex
Banned for smiling
I used to work in Kings Langley which is just off the Magic Roundabout. I'm not a driver, but having been a passenger going round that twice a day I'm pretty happy about that!
darben
Well-Known Forumite
Probably! Judging the lack of observance of red lights & yellow box junctions locally, I guess obeying a rule that you have to actually remember might be pushing things a bit too far!
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
The Corporation Street/Sandon Road junction was a mini-roundabout once - but was soon 'improved' to the current traffic lights..
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
I like it when you have one of those moments of hesitation at a roundabout, relatively common at the Weeping Cross one, when everyone is arriving at it at the same time and nobody is quite sure who has right of way - everything ceases for that small moment of uncertainty until one person breaks the deadlock.
I also like it when you have one of those moments when you are walking straight toward someone who dodges to the left and you dodge to the right so they dodge to the right and you dodge to the left so they dodge back to the left as you mirror them to the right - it's never more than three and always raises at least a smile, more often than not a giggle, always a synchronised 'sorry'.
Strange chaps, people.
I also like it when you have one of those moments when you are walking straight toward someone who dodges to the left and you dodge to the right so they dodge to the right and you dodge to the left so they dodge back to the left as you mirror them to the right - it's never more than three and always raises at least a smile, more often than not a giggle, always a synchronised 'sorry'.
Strange chaps, people.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
It's a strange truth that it is much easier to do that accidentally than it is to do it deliberately - just try it.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
This is a very interesting thread and although I have not read all 14 pages I have read the majority.
Although I do not believe the solution is to build our way out of congestion, I do believe there are simple road solutions that would help. i.e extending the beaconside road to the A34.
I personally would like to see a more integrated transport network in Stafford. As has all ready been alluded to Stafford is on the West Coast mainline which does give Stafford a number of benefits. However outside the station there is only one bus stop. I believe Stafford is in need of a bus station and if this can not be located near to the train station a shuttle bus could be provided from the train station to the new bus station. A possible location for the bus station could be on the land behind Sainsbury's which is currently a Car Park run by Pritchards.
Furthermore I would like to see a park and ride system introduced in town. One potential site could be adjacent to the Argos/Stone computers site. If shuttle busses ran from here to town along the A449 and the Lichfield Road i am confident that people would use it.
My final point is the introduction of a boat bus, similar to the ones used in Birmingham at the Mailbox. These boats are fairly small and serve hot drinks on so much more comfortable than the usual public transport. Potential boat stops could be at Stop 1 - Stafford cricket and Hockey Club next to Stafford Town Stadium, Stop 2 - Riverway (site of the new old peoples home) Stop 3 ASDA just before the bridge, Stop 4 - The new Marks and Spencers site at Riverside. This stop would also serve Staffordshire Place and the Borough Council, Stop 5 - adjacent to the Yard giving good access to the town, Stop 6 - Victoria Park (serving the train station), Stop 7 - Sainsburys. Stop 8 - somewhere near Grey Friars. I would enviage just having two small boats initially that would travel in oposite directions.
Potentially is the canal and river link could be re-introduced the boat bus route could be extended, but as a start I think these routes would be sufficient and ease conjestion aswell as giving Stafford something a little bit different. I welcome your thoughts and views...............
Although I do not believe the solution is to build our way out of congestion, I do believe there are simple road solutions that would help. i.e extending the beaconside road to the A34.
I personally would like to see a more integrated transport network in Stafford. As has all ready been alluded to Stafford is on the West Coast mainline which does give Stafford a number of benefits. However outside the station there is only one bus stop. I believe Stafford is in need of a bus station and if this can not be located near to the train station a shuttle bus could be provided from the train station to the new bus station. A possible location for the bus station could be on the land behind Sainsbury's which is currently a Car Park run by Pritchards.
Furthermore I would like to see a park and ride system introduced in town. One potential site could be adjacent to the Argos/Stone computers site. If shuttle busses ran from here to town along the A449 and the Lichfield Road i am confident that people would use it.
My final point is the introduction of a boat bus, similar to the ones used in Birmingham at the Mailbox. These boats are fairly small and serve hot drinks on so much more comfortable than the usual public transport. Potential boat stops could be at Stop 1 - Stafford cricket and Hockey Club next to Stafford Town Stadium, Stop 2 - Riverway (site of the new old peoples home) Stop 3 ASDA just before the bridge, Stop 4 - The new Marks and Spencers site at Riverside. This stop would also serve Staffordshire Place and the Borough Council, Stop 5 - adjacent to the Yard giving good access to the town, Stop 6 - Victoria Park (serving the train station), Stop 7 - Sainsburys. Stop 8 - somewhere near Grey Friars. I would enviage just having two small boats initially that would travel in oposite directions.
Potentially is the canal and river link could be re-introduced the boat bus route could be extended, but as a start I think these routes would be sufficient and ease conjestion aswell as giving Stafford something a little bit different. I welcome your thoughts and views...............
darben
Well-Known Forumite
Why apologise? It was a very good well thought out post.
I love the boat bus idea, I don't think Stafford makes enough of the Sow. The only problem is the Sow isn't very deep so I'm not sure of the viability. I'm sure I've seen an old photo of punts by the old brine baths i think that would be an attraction worth reinstating
age'd parent
50,000th poster!
Both the old baths and the new inn (can't remember the new name, it's by Sainsbury’s) had boats for hire, the baths went down stream and the new inn went up stream.
It cost a shilling and hour from the new inn, it may be dearer if they implemented it now!
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
Oooh, it's starting a bit early - make sure you've got name tags on your clothes. The New Inn was 'Props' in my time and is now 'Essence of the Orient'. Perhaps they could now hire out little junks or sampans..?
In fact, I believe that this picture was taken just at the back of Lidl during a recent test voyage..
age'd parent
50,000th poster!
It would be quite a tourist attraction to have boats on the river again, somewhere south of Asda to row upriver and moor at Epsley’s yard for a pint at a pub and drift back later, sounds nice!
'Essence of the Orient'
I knew that, just too much memory to index, It's all still in there but takes some finding,
and times too short to prat to about, what I need is a "xmarks" for my brain.
It still works, but needs a defrag and ccleaner plugging in somewhere but I can't find the USB port,
or perhaps I should be looking for a floppy disc port at my age,
DON'T say it!
'Essence of the Orient'
I knew that, just too much memory to index, It's all still in there but takes some finding,
and times too short to prat to about, what I need is a "xmarks" for my brain.
It still works, but needs a defrag and ccleaner plugging in somewhere but I can't find the USB port,
or perhaps I should be looking for a floppy disc port at my age,
DON'T say it!
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Building a bypass is a very expensive business though. It raises issues such as environmental impact, generated traffic, and what could you do with the cash instead? The sort of cash that a bypass costs would buy you some pretty fantastic improvements to public transport.
Yes, Stafford is incredibly well served by rail compared to other towns of similar size. On the bus service front, there are a lot of services that stop at the station - most areas of Stafford are served by a bus that stops outside the station: 9, 74, 75, 76, 88, 101, 481, 490 all stop at the station. There is also integration in terms of being able to have "Plusbus" ticket as part of your train ticket including season tickets.
There was perhaps a lost opportunity to make a better quality bus interchange at the station when the multi-storey was built. I'm not mega convinced a bus station is essential, although they are useful. Gaol Square is virtually a bus station, albeit you can't interchange between all services there. At the moment, most services do a good circuit of town so you can pick a stop quite close to your destination. If a bus station went in, would this be lost?
The success of park and ride depends on various things, but an important one is how attractive it is versus driving all the way into town and parking in the centre. How much does the P&R cost vs town centre car park? Does the P&R save much time? If the bus has to sit in all the same queues then it won't be any quicker than the car (sadly) and if there is plenty of reasonably cheap parking (which there is in Stafford) then P&R is of doubtful benefit. If parking was restricted in town and made more expensive, and buses could be prioritised more over the car then it might stand a chance. Unfortunately I can't see it happening given that new Morrisons and eventually Riverside redevelopment are going to add a lot of parking capacity (controlled privately?). Also can't see our esteemed Borough Councillors being prepared to vote increased parking charges to make P&R more attractive. The other difficulty is that P&R is fine when you're coming from out of town, but if you live in the town then you probably wouldn't make use of it.... although you could use P&R buses to form part of a higher frequency bus network.
Boats would be nice, but not surre of viability. Perhaps would need this first:
http://www.stafford-riverway-link.co.uk/
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
I was quite disappointed that, after spending an alleged four million quid on the re-vamp of the park after the floods, we didn't have a few coin-operated rowing boats for hire - it would surely be quite simple to have a timer that opened a scuttling valve after your allotted time had expired and you hadn't returned it to the dock..
Did you say floppy? Phnarr..
I was think more like punched cards..