The Big Benefits & Employment Thread

[My Name is URL]

interesting story, however i'm at a loss as to the 'how is that fair' comment
1, you could share income within close family
2, in most corners of this planet 'poor' bears no resemblance to your/our 'poor'
3, What do your in-laws need?
4, What do they want the state to do about their predicament?....

I think you've totally missed the point of my post.....

It was in relation to the "poor creating willy nilly" post and the point was, they are probably classed as "poor" and they keep popping out nephews and nieces for me and getting massive amounts of benefits for their efforts...

Meanwhile my fiancee and I work damn hard to earn decent wages but then couldn't afford to have kids because we couldn't afford to lose one salary and wouldn't get benefits to cover it.

Is that a bit clearer?

 

[My Name is URL]

So you're going to stay on benefits forever, yes?

I believe this is the case unless she can find a job where she can turn up when she likes and at what time she likes, go home when she wants and doesn't have to do any work that she doesn't want to.

So basically the exact opposite of any job that any normal hard working person has ever done...

What guts me is that the government let people like Lunar get away with it and if they even think about trying to force someone perfectly capable of working into a job, we get the same old stress / anxiety / mental health excuses....

Seriously if I can ever afford to have kids i'm going to tell them to commit crimes, not learn at school if they even bother going, live off benefits, never get a job, never tax or insure your car, live in a council house or even better in a caravan as a gypsy, have a million kids preferably by a million different mothers / fathers, never buy tv licences, do jobs on the side for cash in hand not paying taxes etc....

In this country the more you work for, the more you give them to take away from you.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

I am currently entitled to up to £139.34 per week or £172.69 per week if I was 25 (JSA + Local Housing Allowance for shared/room and 1 bed property respectively + Council Tax Benefit with 25% discount for being a loner).

I don't think it's gonna happen mate!

So you're going to stay on benefits forever, yes? Because you're too lazy to start at the bottom and work up. You think I've always been on what I am? Christ no I started at the bottom just like everyone else. And you know what I hated people like you more then because you were better off than I. Some of the ones with kids still are.

As for limiting family size and what have you, the poor procreate at an astonishing rate and all that leads to do stretch resources further. At least the rich actually pay for their kids.

Right, so doing telecanvassing for 2 months (I was sacked) doesn't count as starting at the bottom? Doing work for free doesn't count as starting at the bottom? Even if I had a minimum wage job for 16 hours a week I (and also anyone aged 18-21 and subject to the lower NMW) would be marginally better off (according to this) so the whole "better of on benefits" bollocks just doesn't wash with me - even with NHS costs, if you're on a low income you can get an HC2 certificate which would almost certainly entitle you to the same fee waivers as those on benefits.

It is a sad state of affairs that there are people out there having babies because they will get more money - and the cause is capitalism.

 

[Gramaisc]

I believe this is the case unless she can find a job where she can turn up when she likes and at what time she likes, go home when she wants and doesn't have to do any work that she doesn't want to.

Nothing wrong with that - it's essentially what I do, and the only benefit I get is 25% off the Council Tax. It would be difficult to start out in this manner, though, I agree. It took me about 15 years to get into a position to have the mission statement - 'What I like, When I like, for Who I like'. But it is do-able. Things have to happen at some point, but it's largely under my control. A surprising number of people work in this manner, but you're very unlikely to get an employer to see it that way. You have to do it yourself, and it's not easy to start with. Having no mortgage for the last four years makes it a lot easier. It's 16 years in a couple of weeks since I was in paid employment. Self-employment is not difficult as long as you understand money and time. I can recommend it, but I know it's not for everybody.

I have to turn up £100 a month for the Council, a few bob for food and utilities and the rest is mine. If I want more then I can go out and get it. Sometimes I'll have the day off, sometimes I'll work 16 hours.

 

[djstaffs]

Sorry for the large quote guys but think Lunar deserves a proper reply

Minimum wage...well is this not supposed to be the level which you need to just get by? My suggestion would be the whole benefit package should be reduced to where the minimum wage is now, i.e. the minimum you need to get by and minimum wage shopudl be raised to what you need to get by plus some to actually live.

Full time is 37 hours (standard for Staffordshire County Council) x £5.73 = £212.01 per week.
(FYI: the Jobcentre counts anything 16 hours or more as full time.)

I am currently entitled to up to £139.34 per week or £172.69 per week if I was 25 (JSA + Local Housing Allowance for shared/room and 1 bed property respectively + Council Tax Benefit with 25% discount for being a loner).

I don't think it's gonna happen mate!

If you need extra for health reasons etc then you apply for vouchers to be exchanged for the services you need. Disabled should people should recieve more because they cant work but there shoudl be strict guides on who is disabled and who is just less[/e] abled. Less abled being those who have some restictions that rule out some jobs eg joint problems meaning you couldnt do landscape gardening. Less abled would get get same as abled.

Why should the disabled get more just because they can't work as opposed to simply haven't got a job? What about people like students or mothers/carers who choose not to work (and they shouldn't, unless they want to) because they are doing other work-like activities that are of net benefit to society? What about people who volunteer - surely they should also be paid more because they are freely giving their time to help charities or other non-profit organisations that are providing valuable services, that almost certainly couldn't be provided otherwise?

The poor don't procreate 'willy nilly'.

Yes they do. They get benefits to support their children where as those not on benefits have to limit family size due to the fact their income dosnet flex up like benefits do just because they have children.

That's what Child Tax Credit (and possibly other benefits, I haven't investigated) is for - and if there weren't benefits in place to help people to bring up children then those on benefits would have to limit family size or children would suffer because their parents can't afford essentials for their child and only the rich have full reproductive freedom, which is highly immoral. Personally, anything which makes people think twice about having more children (by that I mean make fully considered, informed choices) can only be a good thing - although it should apply equally to all (except maybe have disincentives for the rich, LOL).

Ok, so your o less than minimum wage. Good, and so you should be! Why should you get more than someone who gets off their ass to work? Unfortunately, you are not typical in that. We all know many people who get much more than this. Everyone i know on benefits does when you add in all their diferent benefits.

You will notice i made a distinction between disabled and less abled. Disabled would only be those who truely cant work such as those with advanced MS, severe mental health problems, not just thise who have trouble walking. Students, mothers etc who chose not to work TOUGH CRAP, you chose not to work so dont then come asking for someone to support you.
Volunteers getting paid? OH YOU MEAN GETTING A JOB??? Doing something for monetary gain! Isnt the cornerstone of volunteering doing it for nothing?? Your quite right though, some of these charities and activities couldnt happen without volunteers so we should make anyone who want benefits have to do voluntary work. So you can get a job and get paid or state can pay you in benefits and in return you work for it! But no way do you get benefits and then expect paying for volunatry work.

Child benefit and tax credits help but they dont cover the costs of children. What a working person gets from this is no where near what a benefit person gets.

In reply to further posts you mentioned telemarketing, gettong sacked after 2 months and starting at the bottom and that you have done that etc
In previos threads you actually said you got sacked from jobs or left jobs because they werent fun so you didnt put effort in (or words to that effect). In other words you are too lazy to put the effort in to work your way up. You want it handed to you on a plate. The arguments you put forward in many posts show you are actually quite intelligent, a little application and you could do so much but your too lazy and as such why should we fund you?

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

So you're going to stay on benefits forever, yes?

I believe this is the case unless she can find a job where she can turn up when she likes and at what time she likes, go home when she wants and doesn't have to do any work that she doesn't want to.

Believe what you like... I put together at least 50 packs most weeks, for free.

So basically the exact opposite of any job that any normal hard working person has ever done...

I'm sure many of my former telecanvassing and store colleagues would be deeply offended by the implication that they are not a normal hard working person.

What guts me is that the government let people like Lunar get away with it and if they even think about trying to force someone perfectly capable of working into a job, we get the same old stress / anxiety / mental health excuses....

It's the whole "force" thing - most people at least get to choose their employer. If they are just excuses, then why did a Psychiatrist see fit to prescribe me Seroxat at 15? Why did they waste money paying the staff I had appointments with for those couple of years, and why have several GPs since then prescribed me similar drugs and referred me to mental health services if there isn't a problem? Unless you also have at least an A Level in Psychology then I am by far more qualified than you (and that does not qualify someone by any stretch of the imagination) to comment on my mental health.

Seriously if I can ever afford to have kids i'm going to tell them to commit crimes, not learn at school if they even bother going, live off benefits, never get a job, never tax or insure your car, live in a council house or even better in a caravan as a gypsy, have a million kids preferably by a million different mothers / fathers, never buy tv licences, do jobs on the side for cash in hand not paying taxes etc....

In that case, they would probably have at least one criminal conviction before they are even old enough to work.

In this country the more you work for, the more you give them to take away from you.

Who is this "they" you are referring to? Who is it with all the wealth "they" are taking from you? The first place I would look is in the mansions and CEO offices.

 

[shoes]

I am currently entitled to up to £139.34 per week or £172.69 per week if I was 25 (JSA + Local Housing Allowance for shared/room and 1 bed property respectively + Council Tax Benefit with 25% discount for being a loner).

I don't think it's gonna happen mate!

So you're going to stay on benefits forever, yes? Because you're too lazy to start at the bottom and work up. You think I've always been on what I am? Christ no I started at the bottom just like everyone else. And you know what I hated people like you more then because you were better off than I. Some of the ones with kids still are.

As for limiting family size and what have you, the poor procreate at an astonishing rate and all that leads to do stretch resources further. At least the rich actually pay for their kids.

Right, so doing telecanvassing for 2 months (I was sacked) doesn't count as starting at the bottom? Doing work for free doesn't count as starting at the bottom? Even if I had a minimum wage job for 16 hours a week I (and also anyone aged 18-21 and subject to the lower NMW) would be marginally better off (according to this) so the whole "better of on benefits" bollocks just doesn't wash with me - even with NHS costs, if you're on a low income you can get an HC2 certificate which would almost certainly entitle you to the same fee waivers as those on benefits.

It is a sad state of affairs that there are people out there having babies because they will get more money - and the cause is capitalism.

I'm not on a 'low income' although i'm not exactly on what I would call a high income. I am however on a high enough income to be entitled to squat and to simply pay for other's lesser achievements. Well f**k you too.

You got sacked from a telemarketing job for what? Frankly I think you're problem is you're unemployable but you're too embarrased to admit it.

 

[shoes]

So you're going to stay on benefits forever, yes?

I believe this is the case unless she can find a job where she can turn up when she likes and at what time she likes, go home when she wants and doesn't have to do any work that she doesn't want to.

Believe what you like... I put together at least 50 packs most weeks, for free.

So basically the exact opposite of any job that any normal hard working person has ever done...

I'm sure many of my former telecanvassing and store colleagues would be deeply offended by the implication that they are not a normal hard working person.

What guts me is that the government let people like Lunar get away with it and if they even think about trying to force someone perfectly capable of working into a job, we get the same old stress / anxiety / mental health excuses....

It's the whole "force" thing - most people at least get to choose their employer. If they are just excuses, then why did a Psychiatrist see fit to prescribe me Seroxat at 15? Why did they waste money paying the staff I had appointments with for those couple of years, and why have several GPs since then prescribed me similar drugs and referred me to mental health services if there isn't a problem? Unless you also have at least an A Level in Psychology then I am by far more qualified than you (and that does not qualify someone by any stretch of the imagination) to comment on my mental health.

Seriously if I can ever afford to have kids i'm going to tell them to commit crimes, not learn at school if they even bother going, live off benefits, never get a job, never tax or insure your car, live in a council house or even better in a caravan as a gypsy, have a million kids preferably by a million different mothers / fathers, never buy tv licences, do jobs on the side for cash in hand not paying taxes etc....

In that case, they would probably have at least one criminal conviction before they are even old enough to work.

In this country the more you work for, the more you give them to take away from you.

Who is this "they" you are referring to? Who is it with all the wealth "they" are taking from you? The first place I would look is in the mansions and CEO offices.

Oh you must be able to distinguish between a company charging 'x' for a product and the consumer choosing to buy it at that price, and the government taking from you, out of your income, money before you have even seen that. I didn't agree to that. I didn't ask for that. But legally I can't stop it. Whats worse is the money i choose to spend with company goes to hard working people who have used innovation and hard work to build up their companies and have been renumerated accordingly, whereas part of my tax goes to wasters like you who's only noteably skill is playing the system for the cash cow it is.

 

[Gramaisc]

the only benefit I get is 25% off the Council Tax.

Correction - I do also get a free eye test, but that's because of the state of one eye - not income related either. So that's £20ish every couple of years and about £30 off the lenses.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Ok, so your o less than minimum wage. Good, and so you should be! Why should you get more than someone who gets off their ass to work? Unfortunately, you are not typical in that. We all know many people who get much more than this. Everyone i know on benefits does when you add in all their diferent benefits.

Quite possibly because I was going on my current situation, which is a single person living in social housing accommodation (although I haven't moved in yet as there is a bit of work to do first).

You will notice i made a distinction between disabled and less abled. Disabled would only be those who truely cant work such as those with advanced MS, severe mental health problems, not just thise who have trouble walking.

I wasn't just talking about the wheelchair-bound. I actually know of someone with a severe mental illness who would like to work, but can't because this person is only capable of working at certain times of the year and the employers aren't flexible enough to allow this person to do the type of work they could do. There are very few people with disabilities that cannot work at all - but essentially some people are forced not to work because the job market isn't flexible enough for them to have a place within it.

Students, mothers etc who chose not to work TOUGH CRAP, you chose not to work so dont then come asking for someone to support you.

So what you're saying is, that unless you or your parents have enough money you're not entitled to an education - nice! That's one way to completely kill social mobility... Parenthood is a full time job - if it wasn't, then people wouldn't need to pay for childcare while they were at work. Some people have children because they actually want to spend all time bringing them up and that is their perogative - no one has the right to dictate how anyone should raise their children.

Volunteers getting paid? OH YOU MEAN GETTING A JOB???

No, I mean receiving a reward from the government for doing work providing the many much needed services (this could be a volunteer allowance that is also designed to cover any out-of-pocket expenses), not payment from their "employer".

Doing something for monetary gain!

It's not something that I enjoy - some may call me altruistic, but I believe there is no such thing. I just prefer the satisfaction I get from helping people out, doing something worthwhile - and monetary gain is not something that I consider to be worthwhile.

Isnt the cornerstone of volunteering doing it for nothing??

See above.

Your quite right though, some of these charities and activities couldnt happen without volunteers so we should make anyone who want benefits have to do voluntary work.

You obviously haven't heard about the schemes they have... I disagree with making anyone do anything for the basic means of survival - people have a right to be free to meet their own needs, and denying them that would be manslaughter or gross negligence.

So you can get a job and get paid or state can pay you in benefits and in return you work for it! But no way do you get benefits and then expect paying for volunatry work.

I think I've probably already answered this one

Child benefit and tax credits help but they dont cover the costs of children. What a working person gets from this is no where near what a benefit person gets.

TOUGH CRAP, you chose to work so don't then come asking for someone to support you. Surely it works both ways? People make choices?

In reply to further posts you mentioned telemarketing, gettong sacked after 2 months and starting at the bottom and that you have done that etc
In previos threads you actually said you got sacked from jobs or left jobs because they werent fun so you didnt put effort in (or words to that effect).

Not quite: at times I did find them fun, other times I found them unbearable. They didn't suit me, and like most people I only do things that I see some point in doing. Earning extra money is not something that motivates me - so the level of reward from other areas (i.e. a certain level of job satisfaction) is key. I have never had that level of job satisfaction in employment, hence why I have spent significantly more time doing voluntary work.

In other words you are too lazy

Yeah, you've actually lost me there... How many fooking times do I need to point out that I have regularly being doing voluntary work for the last 6 months?! Anyway, carry on...

to put the effort in to work your way up. You want it handed to you on a plate. The arguments you put forward in many posts show you are actually quite intelligent, a little application and you could do so much but your too lazy and as such why should we fund you?

I take it voluntary work and being at university for two years (I attended every single lecture, bar one or two - same at college doing my A levels) doesn't count as application? Well, since I'm too lazy I suppose I might as well chuck the Open University prospectus in the bin, yeah? And while we're at it, fook the voluntary work I'm still doing - and fook the Open Door placement I've just started at the council (the idea of which is that I am treated exactly like any other employee, except I am not on the payroll). No, I'm so lazy I haven't done anything whatsoever to improve my chances of actually making something of myself, ever. I didn't repeat a year at university because I knew I could do better. In fact, passing my A Levels in Mathematics and Psychology in the first place was just a fluke, in fact I think I just ordered the certificates off the internet! Never mind the fact my GCSE grades are ABCCC (originally a D in English, I had to retake it at college and I never really liked the subject - and if it weren't for the fact that they entered everyone for the Foundation paper, I believe I may have actually got a B to match my coursework, at least one of which was an A if I remember correctly). No, I never fooking work for anything.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Frankly I think you're problem is you're unemployable but you're too embarrased to admit it.

Nope, I did admit it - I put it as the answer to a question (I think it was something along the lines of barriers to work) on one of the stupid forms I had to fill in at Biscom last year - if I remember rightly they sat me down and politely told me it was bullshit, but anyway - I'm not too embarrassed to admit it, everyone else is in denial (well, apart from a few people who have said the same thing).

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Oh you must be able to distinguish between a company charging 'x' for a product and the consumer choosing to buy it at that price, and the government taking from you, out of your income, money before you have even seen that. I didn't agree to that. I didn't ask for that. But legally I can't stop it. Whats worse is the money i choose to spend with company goes to hard working people who have used innovation and hard work to build up their companies and have been renumerated accordingly, whereas part of my tax goes to wasters like you who's only noteably skill is playing the system for the cash cow it is.

I am only playing the system in the way that it was designed for. I did not choose the system either, so do not blame me for what I did not do. As for me being a waster - do you know what self-fulfilling prophesy is? It's a good job I have a certain level of self-respect or I could have been a prostitute, drug dealer or in a gutter somewhere by now.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

the only benefit I get is 25% off the Council Tax.

Correction - I do also get a free eye test, but that's because of the state of one eye - not income related either. So that's £20ish every couple of years and about £30 off the lenses.

Nobody cares what benefits you get, least of all me...

 

[djstaffs]

I wasn't just talking about the wheelchair-bound. I actually know of someone with a severe mental illness who would like to work, but can't because this person is only capable of working at certain times of the year and the employers aren't flexible enough to allow this person to do the type of work they could do. There are very few people with disabilities that cannot work at all - but essentially some people are forced not to work because the job market isn't flexible enough for them to have a place within it.

So we are agreed on that then. If yo uhave physical or mental disability that stop s you from working then you get supported by the state. That is exactly what i said. Wheel chair bound, sorry but them guys have to get going and work too. Thats not a barrier to working.

So what you're saying is, that unless you or your parents have enough money you're not entitled to an education - nice! That's one way to completely kill social mobility... Parenthood is a full time job - if it wasn't, then people wouldn't need to pay for childcare while they were at work. Some people have children because they actually want to spend all time bringing them up and that is their perogative - no one has the right to dictate how anyone should raise their children.

OK. Students...when i was a student and all my student friends at the time and presently, none of us got benefits, we got jobs around our academic and placement commitments then ended up with debts that are still being paid off. Oh my parents had nothing to give. And i do mean nothing. Yet i went had a decent education so it has nothing to do with how much money your parents have.
Mothers/parenthood. Yep full time job. And costs a fair bit too. But my point doesnt seem to be clear so let me say this loud and clear...IF YOU WANT TO HAVE KIDS GO AHEAD THATS YOUR CHOICE AND YOU ARE ENTITLED TO IT, BUT YOU MADE THAT CHOICE, I DIDNT MAKE IT FOR YOU SO DONT ASK FOR BENEFITS SO YOU CAN STAY HOME FULL TIME. I WORK FULL TIME, TIME AWAY FROM MY FAMILY, AND HAVE TO PAY TAXES WHGICH FUND YOUR BENEFITS. DONT HAVE KIDS UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO SUPPORT THEM.
Your right, we dont have the right to tell people how to bring up their children, pity. But why should some people have the right to just have kids then expect everyone else to pay for it. Its one thing to support families through tough times, i am all for that, but its quite another when those families have no intention of wokring and just want to take the lazy way out.

No, I mean receiving a reward from the government for doing work providing the many much needed services (this could be a volunteer allowance that is also designed to cover any out-of-pocket expenses), not payment from their "employer".

No sorry, i am totally against this. When the benefit system is so stretched (and over subscribed which is what sparked off this thread) why oh why oh why should we be looking at giving even more to people? As mentioned previously there are enough people being rewarded by the goverment for doing nothing, lets have them doing something. As you point out, volunteering isnt about gain, its about fulfillment. So out of pocket exspenses, well sorry thats what you sign up for when you do this.

It's not something that I enjoy - some may call me altruistic, but I believe there is no such thing. I just prefer the satisfaction I get from helping people out, doing something worthwhile - and monetary gain is not something that I consider to be worthwhile.

Good for you doing something to help someone else out just for the feel good factor. I am not sure when i gave you the impression i felt my wage was the satisfying thing about working. Far from it. I work because i want a certain standard of living. The satisfaction is saving lives while at work and providing my family with decent food, home and decent standard of life.

You obviously haven't heard about the schemes they have... I disagree with making anyone do anything for the basic means of survival - people have a right to be free to meet their own needs, and denying them that would be manslaughter or gross negligence.

No one is denying people the right to meet thir basic needs. You do that by getting a job. If you dont have one we will support you while you do. If you really cant do we will support you. If you want us to keep you while you do nothing then why should we support you in that? Why shoud someoen have the right to maoney off the state for doing nothing? Why shouldnt a condition of getting benefits be that you do something for it? Where is the incentive to work?

TOUGH CRAP, you chose to work so don't then come asking for someone to support you. Surely it works both ways? People make choices?

Sorry didnt make my point clear...the point i was making is the extra help you mentioned in way of tax credits etc that are available to working people are far below what those on benefits get for having kids.

In reply to further posts you mentioned telemarketing, gettong sacked after 2 months and starting at the bottom and that you have done that etc
In previos threads you actually said you got sacked from jobs or left jobs because they werent fun so you didnt put effort in (or words to that effect).

Not quite: at times I did find them fun, other times I found them unbearable. They didn't suit me, and like most people I only do things that I see some point in doing. Earning extra money is not something that motivates me - so the level of reward from other areas (i.e. a certain level of job satisfaction) is key. I have never had that level of job satisfaction in employment, hence why I have spent significantly more time doing voluntary work.

I spent 10years doing jobs i didnt enjoy or like or see the point or feel was worth while or at time were unbearable. Like most people though i stuck it out. I didnt take the option of saying sod this, i will jack it in or get myself the sack because of not working becasue i can get benefits. Not in my work ethic, i stuck it out until i found something else then moved. Which is why there is no gaps in my work history since i left school.
Earning extra money doesnt motivate me either but working to support the standard i desire does.
Get a job then in your time outside of that do your voluntary work, like the rest of us.

In other words you are too lazy

Yeah, you've actually lost me there... How many fooking times do I need to point out that I have regularly being doing voluntary work for the last 6 months?! Anyway, carry on...

Voluntary work is something you choose as and when to do...

I take it voluntary work and being at university for two years (I attended every single lecture, bar one or two - same at college doing my A levels) doesn't count as application? Well, since I'm too lazy I suppose I might as well chuck the Open University prospectus in the bin, yeah? And while we're at it, fook the voluntary work I'm still doing - and fook the Open Door placement I've just started at the council (the idea of which is that I am treated exactly like any other employee, except I am not on the payroll). No, I'm so lazy I haven't done anything whatsoever to improve my chances of actually making something of myself, ever. I didn't repeat a year at university because I knew I could do better. In fact, passing my A Levels in Mathematics and Psychology in the first place was just a fluke, in fact I think I just ordered the certificates off the internet! Never mind the fact my GCSE grades are ABCCC (originally a D in English, I had to retake it at college and I never really liked the subject - and if it weren't for the fact that they entered everyone for the Foundation paper, I believe I may have actually got a B to match my coursework, at least one of which was an A if I remember correctly). No, I never fooking work for anything.

Well for f**k sake why didnt you say so sooner. Again a thread turned round to you and your circumstance when actually the focus of the thread didnt apply to you as you obviously are trying to do somehting about your situation. Genuinely good on ya. And in which case happy to support you. From some of the things you have said about your situation i do think you have been lazy and my comments on that remain unchanged. But you obviously are looking to get a job and better yourslef so great stuff and have a skill point too.

 

[Gramaisc]

the only benefit I get is 25% off the Council Tax.

Correction - I do also get a free eye test, but that's because of the state of one eye - not income related either. So that's £20ish every couple of years and about £30 off the lenses.

Nobody cares what benefits you get, least of all me...

I like to think that somebody might care. I was merely pointing out that not having a 'real' job is a possible route, although maybe not easy to start, without relying on the state for the majority of your income.

 

[My Name is URL]

No, I mean receiving a reward from the government <snip> (this could be a volunteer allowance that is also designed to cover any out-of-pocket expenses)

As far as I am aware, the vast majority of voluntary organisations already pay "out of pocket expenses"

people have a right to be free to meet their own needs

100% correct, the only problem is people who choose not to work (see, i'm trying to make this generalist not specific to you so it can't be seen as bullying) aren't meeting their own needs, I am meeting them, so is every other tax payer

TOUGH CRAP, you chose to work

I've heard it all now... no one chooses to work, i'm sure everyone would prefer to spend time at home with the family / kids / doing sport / watching tv... the only problem is if I chose never to come into work again I would get sweet FA in benefits or whatever. Plus I would never be able to better myself and improve myself, I would feel lazy and useless.... someone (again not specific to you) sticks a few pencils in their ears and their Y fronts on their head though and see a doctor and their too "ill" to work.

Yeah, you've actually lost me there... How many fooking times do I need to point out that I have regularly being doing voluntary work for the last 6 months?!

As i've pointed out before, its great that you do voluntary work, but i've done voluntry work myself, its a piece of piss. If you can't be arsed to go in, you don't. If you don't want to do something they ask you to do, you don't. If you're late what happens? Nothing. If you're not working hard enough - "oh there only a volunteer, don't upset them or they'll leave", if you screw something up, same thing. Whilst I wouldn't say someone who volunteers is as lazy as some chav who sits on the sofa all day watching sky, drinking beer and smoking fags, its still too lazy to get a real job.

Open University prospectus in the bin

No doubt a course funded by the tax payer (through the government) designed to allow you to improve your prospects of getting a job. Problem is people very often just do course after course after course to avoid getting a job and then government don't care because if your're classes as a student then your not classed as unemployed.

 

[My Name is URL]

Correction - I do also get a free eye test, but that's because of the state of one eye - not income related either. So that's £20ish every couple of years and about £30 off the lenses.

Nobody cares what benefits you get, least of all me...

I like to think that somebody might care. I was merely pointing out that not having a 'real' job is a possible route, although maybe not easy to start, without relying on the state for the majority of your income.

Don't worry Gramaisc, Lunar's on one...

Your input is always valuable to such a discussion thread so keep posting

 

[Gramaisc]

Somebody cares!

You're my best friend, you are.

 

[tek-monkey]

Bloody hell, not again!

Its quite simple, LS sees benefits in the same way MPs see expenses. There to be abused, as long as its within the law (or can be got away with). There are no morals to worry about, as neither sees it as a problem. The system lets them do it, so its the systems fault. Always someone elses fault....

 

[djstaffs]

Correction - I do also get a free eye test, but that's because of the state of one eye - not income related either. So that's £20ish every couple of years and about £30 off the lenses.

Nobody cares what benefits you get, least of all me...

I like to think that somebody might care. I was merely pointing out that not having a 'real' job is a possible route, although maybe not easy to start, without relying on the state for the majority of your income.

I cares too....