The Sustainablility Thread

[db]

sustainability == green == environment == hippies..

ok then if the masses are as fickle as we know they are, they should be into the most recent fashionable things. aren't green issues the talk of the town at the moment? strike now, while its in fashion and perhaps distill some sense of responsibility into the unsustainable mind set.

well, that approach has been tried, and has been reasonably successful.. remember those "bags for life" some designer did a while ago, that sold out in minutes and became the latest must-have fashion accessory?

sounds shallow and ridiculous, but you might have hit upon a decent idea there..

 

[Doctor]

My point about the difference between environment and sustainability is to do with including all aspects of life within this debate. Sustainability neccessarily has to include looking at economic and social issues in ballance with our environment. The more the point is made the less it can be dismissed as a load of old tree huggers. We need to be showing that our present system will not only devistate our natural environment but will also tear apart our society and cripple economic growth. However, with a little thought, a changed economy can exist that dosn't cause such harm and can continue to provide growth and lots of the things we desire - just slightly different things (because our desires will be different too).

So before I go off on one again - thanks for changing it to sustainability thread - every little bit helps and the more people who understand something about sustainable development the better then maybe when big business talks about a 'sustainable economy' one day they won't mean one that keeps growing without looking at any of the externalities.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

cripple economic growth.

What a good idea...

Down with capitalism! Anarcho-Communism all the way!!!

 

[db]

cripple economic growth.

What a good idea...

Down with capitalism! Anarcho-Communism all the way!!!

"While we're at it; there are systems for a reason in this world. Economical stability, interest rates, growth - it's not all a conspiracy to keep you in little boxes. Alright? It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43, with rotten teeth. And a little pill with a chicken on it isn't going to change that!"

 

[Astro Boy]

cripple economic growth.

What a good idea...

Down with capitalism! Anarcho-Communism all the way!!!

http://ss2.cdn.weshow.com/thumbnail/uk/large/7031.jpg

"While we're at it; there are systems for a reason in this world. Economical stability, interest rates, growth - it's not all a conspiracy to keep you in little boxes. Alright? It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43, with rotten teeth. And a little pill with a chicken on it isn't going to change that!"

god god, suggesting chaos is not productive at all, it provokes bold type rage posts.

but..................... who said anything about conspiracy?!

we're not lying in our own shit because capitalism has raped the southern hemispere / poorer countries and those populations are doing the squalidness for us.

infinate growth with a finite amount of resources is not sustainable.

we're not advocating that there is a miracle cure that can simply be swallowed and then everything will be alright. i think every good post here has suggested that its going to be a slow and gradual process before we even begin to undo the damage caused by our endeavours.

and its going to be an even slower process with closed minds and shit comments.

 

[db]

er, i take it you don't watch peep show then? lol

my post was a quote from mark corrigan.. hence the picture! i wasn't actually putting that forward as a genuine point of view lol.. lunar's "down with capitalism" comment just reminded me of that bit..

where's BBC when you need him?? lol

 

[Astro Boy]

shit! the picture doesnt load up here! lol

i knew you wouldnt have written that seriously. thought you were pissed!



edit: :sheepish:

 

[db]

shit! the picture doesnt load up here! lol

lol you've edited your post about 5 times now, each time adding a bit more spleen venting! my favourite new bit is "it provokes bold type rage posts".. i put it in bold because it was a quote! lol

come on chiltz, you know me better than that!

edit: and now you're editing this post! lol

i knew you wouldnt have written that seriously. though you were pissed!

pissed, at 10:00 on a monday morning?? come on, i'm not that bad! lol

 

[Astro Boy]

that was added before 'realization' occoured

 

[db]

that was added before 'realization' occoured

i've edited my original post so the picture should show up now (i've uploaded it to coobeastie's host)

take a deep breath and have some camomile tea and fair trade biscuit or samink

 

[Astro Boy]

as you may be able to tell, im not awake yet. :p

 

[Astro Boy]

hmmm tea. nope, hasnt worked cant see it

 

[Astro Boy]

its working! its working! well, there we go - it all makes sense now. i still want to beat that little peep into the ground.

:ilikemondays:

 

[BBC]

While we're at it; there are systems for a reason in this world. Economical stability, interest rates, growth - it's not all a conspiracy to keep you in little boxes. Alright? It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43, with rotten teeth. And a little pill with a chicken on it isn't going to change that!"

Comedy gold

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

suggesting chaos is not productive at all

Who is suggesting chaos?

 

[Monquey]

what are your opinions, monquey, on the various conspiracy theories we keep hearing about stafford council just shipping our blue-bin waste off to various landfills? i'm not saying i believe them, or trying to start a fight, i'm just interested to know your thoughts.. as someone who is so passionate about stuff like this, i assume you have actually done a bit of digging to establish whether your "recycled" stuff is actually being recycled? are you happy that this is the case?

I don't know for sure. I'd assume that as every local council has pretty strict recycling targets these days that somebody, somewhere must be monitoring it all. When I was going for a job (young men didn't give it me) at Islington Council I did some heavy digging into their systems and standards, and unless there is a giant cover-up, they do exactly what they say they do. Can't speak for Staffs council, but they'll have published reports outlining standards, strategies and targets. These days I'd say that it would be more work for them NOT to do it, than to do it.

That said, there may be some truth to the rumours - they usually start somewhere and I suspect that a couple of councils may have been guilty in the past. I seem to remember a documentary ages ago that suggested one council was shipping their recycling to landfills in China.

Still, the crucial phrase is conspiracy theory, and most are usually utter bollox. Man really did walk on the moon, 9/11 was caused by Islamic terrorists, and Diana died because the driver was pissed and speeding. Conspiracies are invented by people who want to twist tales to fit their own agenda. In this instance, I'd suspect the anti-green lobby.

 

[Astro Boy]

suggesting chaos is not productive at all

Who is suggesting chaos?

Anarcho-Communism - an opposition to ALL forms of political power, hierarchy and domination. Granted, in a calm state of mind I can accept that a bit of communism might do some good, but anarcho-communism? There's a reason why its just theory on paper - it'll never work and just create chaos.

Its probably more about the flippancy of the comment - not really helping the debate or helping to win over the type of people who steer clear of 'hippy issues', or those who are waiting for absurd utopian comments so they can rubbish the rest of the argument.

Now then, the sustainability thread........................................

 

[db]

Its probably more about the flippancy of the comment

skill point

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Ultimately, the only economy that is sustainable is one without growth - i.e. the opposite of capitalism, which is... (I'll leave you to answer that one for yourself, but the answer is highly unlikely to be anything other than some form of Anarchism, Socialism and/or Communism.)

So, back to sustainability. Here is an interesting article about the UK's carbon emissions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7536421.stm

 

[Doctor]

No...one of the main points of sustainability is to balance athrivingeconomy with social and environmental needs. The economy may need to change significantly and not by moving away from oil. It will need to calculate it's own effectiveness in a different way - tripple bottom line, carbon emmissions, social premiums, etc but non of that should limit growth. Moving away from a carbon based economy is , perhaps, the big worry for people but each previous revolution such as this has brought a whole new impetous for growth. There is massive potential for growth in carbon free energy, there are whole new markets for eco friendly cars and products, sustainable buildings, energy efficient computing and technology - these are all reasons for more money to be passed around. Given any problem we (humans) are rather good at finding lots of way of making money out of teh solutions. There may well be a period of economic realignment when power shifts to those who pick up on these industries first - those who cling to the old ways will be left behind.