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Universal benefits

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by 70-plus, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. 70-plus

    70-plus Well-Known Forumite

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    Someone has to start the discussion about universal benefits! Means testing is expensive and that is why the LIB/CON government has got itself into a mess about child benefit. Universal benefits means everyone has a state in this country and everyone is valued. The Daily Mail states that women not going to work but with husbands on salaries over £45,000 will lose out when their neighbours could be earning more if both parents work. The LIB/CONs have got themselves into a mess again and the Lib conference voted for universal benefits! Now they know why we do not trust politicians...
     
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  3. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    Yeah? And?
     
  4. kyoto49

    kyoto49 Well-Known Forumite

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    Personally I will be glad to see the end of money going to the wealthy via child benefit. I'm also ecstatic (well almost!) that there is going to be a cap on the total amount of benefits a family can claim, 26k total a year I believe, to include housing benefit. This is certainly a step in the right direction of reducing the benefits culture that sees families avoiding work as they can get more money on the dole.

    *prepares for backlash*
     
  5. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    I'm with you on that one, it's shocking that families with such large incomes can claim any benefits, especially ones encouraging your to have children.

    Personally I think that it is a step in the right direction, although I do feel it will be a long time before the treasury sees a pay back as such a system is going to cost a fortune to implement. We might even have to invade another oil, sorry WMD producing country to fund it.

    I would also like to see a cap on child benefit but it's always the children you penalise by reducing or capping it. Apparently its unethical to have a hand in the number of children born and to whom, so I guess it's just a case of splashing out on ever expanding families.
     
  6. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Agree entirely, I don't see why benefits should ever be more than the national average wage regardless of your situation. The fact is 50% of people who work for a living survive on less than this, so why shouldn't those on benefits?

    As for anyone moaning that they earn more than 44k and can't survive without child benefit, get a fookin grip. Live within your means, if your take home is £2700/month what are you spending it on that makes you feel that I, a childless tax payer, should support you? You wanted the kids, you pay for them.
     
  7. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Wrong, its unethical to say they can't have them but its not unethical to say they must support them themself. If you want an extra kid, decide if you want one enough to compromise your lifestyle.

    Although child benefit is fook all compared to housing benefit, thats the real kicker. Apparently the £500/week cap is going to hit a lot of people in London, as those with large families already pay that in rent alone.
     
  8. zebidee

    zebidee Well-Known Forumite

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    Bit hard when you've got a mighty mortgage on a tiny house. Plus people don't like being forced to change the way they live, do they?

    And who knows what to make of the Daily Mail stating that it wouldn't apply to a couple each earning slightly under the threshold, surely the government wouldn't seriously think that a family earning a combined income of £80k needs child benefit more than a one wage family earning £44k?

    What irritates me is it even goes against their blooming campaign to 'reward' married couples who have one parent at home. Seems that they can't keep their own policies straight.

    Let's hope the government start doing things to actually HELP people soon.
     
  9. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    If you have a mortgage based on what benefits you receive on top of your income then you deserve everything that's coming to you. Oh look, I seem to have popped out a sprog, thank goodness I can steal money from other tax payers to fund my new bigger house'. Go f**k yourself. I DO NOT work 60+ hours a week to that baby factories can live in houses I can only dream of.

    I certainly do not pay tax so that those who earn twice what I do can have a proportion of my income. The system is there for those who need it, not those who want a better lifestyle than their £50k can give them. I'm sorry but if you want more money stop having kids or get a better job.

    Helping married couples is brilliant too - a unit where you have a double income but only say 30% increased costs on the cost of living compared to being single... yes married couples need lots of help. But oh no they have a kid who needs educating, healthcare etc. all provided gratis and THEN more money on top?

    Oh give over, you know as well as I do that this is perfectly possible. You can't get cancer drugs on the NHS but you can have a sex change op because you're a bit down? This country is upside down.
     
  10. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    Don't think I will ever understand this point mate, it just seems complete nonsense to me.
     
  11. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    So they popped out a sprog to get the extra money to get a bigger house? Ludicrous, **** their child benefits. If I can earn 23k and still afford a mortgage on a 3 bed house I have no sympathy for someone on double that who can't, just because they chose to breed. Their choice, they live with it.

    If a parent stays at home your childcare costs are massively reduced, certainly by more than child benefit covers. Although, this being the DM, I won't bother arguing further until its shown to be the truth.

    I'm with shoes on this one, I don't think married couples should get any breaks. Why incentivise an outmoded practice of forcing people together, surely if they want to stay together they would, regardless of tiny contributions towards their boglin factory?

    As far as I can see they are trying to reduce the absolutely massive debt the last gov got us into, and if taking benefits off people that really have no right to them in the first place is their first call then I say good on them. I'd say stop child benefit at the second kid though, and certainly not pay it if your HOUSEHOLD earns more than 44k. You can afford to pay for your own kids, why do I have to support you if you earn double what I do?

    Fookin hell, the more I here this stuff the more Tory I'm thinking. This really saddens me.

    You can't say "You are not allowed more than 1 child", that is unethical and against their human rights.

    You can however say "Have as many as you like, but you get absolutely jack **** for any extra than 2 you pump out. 2 is how many the country wants, any more are your own problem." This is not unethical, it is merely spending government funds as best required for the good of the country.

    I fail to see how the 2 can't work together.

    Also, shoes, how did you manage to quote trumpet when it was zebidee that said that?!?!?!
     
  12. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Just in case I'm not clear:

    BENEFITS ARE A SAFETY NET, NOT A LIFE CHOICE!

    Man up, grow some balls and take responsibility for your own lives, and stop expecting handouts like ******* pocket money! Its YOUR fault the country is in this state just as much as all the dolescum baby factories everyone loves to bitch about. If you claim the benefit too, how are you different?
     
  13. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    But then you're saying it's ethical to allow, or to in fact put into palace the system, people to birth children into poverty? If you have to claim child benefit for your third, fourth, nth child then allowing people to have them but not give them more is allowing it to happen. So you're left with either stopping people having kids by legislation or absorbing the additional liability to the national kitty. I know which one I'm more for.

    Good question! No idea!
     
  14. John Marwood

    John Marwood I ♥ cryptic crosswords

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    The Universal used to supply mark three cortinas as company cars I believe - i guess at the time they would be a benefit...
     
  15. Sofa

    Sofa I'm a Staffooooooordian

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    Erm, yeah, right. Yep. Judging from your posts in this thread, Shoes, it looks like you may be feeling a little under the weather...
     
  16. Trumpet

    Trumpet Well-Known Forumite

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    No I didn't !
    I'm with you on this one again Shoes.
     
  17. Jenksie

    Jenksie Well-Known Forumite

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    "I certainly do not pay tax so that those who earn twice what I do can have a proportion of my income. "

    You certainly do. The Civil List, Winter Fuel Payments, Every PPI ever signed off!
    The BBC?
     
  18. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    Over 1,000 cancer patients refused drugs by NHS managers

    Number of NHS sex change operations triples

    As for me, I'm happy as larry mate - got a fantastic income, no pesky kids, no benefits and lovely bupa care, I want to keep my penis where it is, I pay my taxes, don't have a TV licence and make money from a passion. Somehow I seem to be able to remember to take my ID when buying cigarettes and alcohol ever single time, put my rubbish in the right bins and live within my means. My life is going swimmingly.

    Too bad the same can't be said for a lot of people eh?
     
  19. zebidee

    zebidee Well-Known Forumite

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    Shoes, my dear, ever heard of being non-confrontational?
     
  20. shoes

    shoes Well-Known Forumite

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    Yes, lets all be liberal wishy washy hippies and achieve the square root of FA.

    The fact alone you think that was confrontational shows how much of a spineless wimp you are - people like YOU are the reason this country is so messed up.

    As I said before, we need some strict right wing domination in this country for a good decade or two to snap us all back into shape. The blitz generation must despair seeing how the country they fought for has degenerated so much. The one's who are left anyway.
     
  21. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

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    There was a woman at the Tory Conference on Radio 4 this morning complaining about the one/two taxpayer anomaly and saying that people on £45k aren't rich - they are, and I quote, 'just getting by'.....

    I think that a few weeks in a village in the Congo might have some educational value there.....
     

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