Leave or Remain?

Thehooperman

Well-Known Forumite
I also received the same email. I shall copy it so everyone knows what our MP thinks and is doing:


"I will be supporting the EU Withdrawal Agreement/Political Declaration in the vote on Tuesday.

Below are set out key points in the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration and my reasons for supporting them, including addressing points which constituents have raised with me.

The full texts are at https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-future-relationship-with-the-european-union.

The Withdrawal Agreement

• Gives us a time-limited implementation period that provides a bridge to the future relationship, allowing businesses to continue trading as now until the end of 2020.

• Provides a fair financial settlement;

• Ensures no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, with a UK-wide backstop respecting the constitutional and economic integrity of the UK. This agreement legally commits both sides to use best endeavours to ensure the backstop is never used. If either side fails to do so, this could be referred to an independent arbitration panel. This includes a mechanism which either the UK or the EU can trigger to review the arrangements, which could ultimately lead to the backstop ceasing to apply.

• Protects the rights of UK citizens living in the EU, and EU citizens living in the UK

The Political Declaration

• Ends free movement of people. There will be a new skills-based immigration system.

• Provides for a free trade area and deep cooperation on goods, with zero tariffs and quotas.

• Gives the UK the ability to strike trade deals around the world.

• Calls for ambitious arrangements for services and investment, alongside new arrangements on financial services.

• Contains new and specific arrangements on digital matters, covering a wide-range of areas, reflecting the growth and prominence of global digital trade.

• Ensures the UK will be an independent coastal state, with commitments to ensure sustainable fishing levels and a new fisheries agreement with the EU.

• Ensures the UK will be outside the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy.

• Provides for open and fair competition, in line with the overall economic relationship with commitments by both the UK and the EU on state aid, employment and environmental standards, and relevant tax matters.

• Commits to comprehensive and close reciprocal law enforcement and judicial cooperation to keep people safe.

• Enables a close and flexible partnership in foreign policy and defence.

The objectives of the Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration are to ensure firstly that we leave the EU as smoothly as possible (with an implementation/transition period until 31st December 2020 during which trade relationships continue as now) in accordance with the result of the referendum; and secondly that the new relationship encompasses a close trade agreement through a free trade area, cooperation on security, health and law enforcement. At the same time, the UK will have control over immigration, agriculture and fisheries and freedom of movement will come to an end. The European Court of Justice will also not have general jurisdiction in the UK in the areas where it does now.

I will be voting for this Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration, and cannot support leaving the EU without a deal. While I campaigned to remain in the EU, the Agreement puts into effect the result of the referendum to leave while the Declaration provides for a long-term free trade relationship between the UK and EU which will, if handled constructively, be to our mutual benefit. The EU as a whole remains by far the UK’s largest trading partner, and is particularly important for jobs, livelihoods and public services in our region of the West Midlands as well as the UK as whole.

On specific matters which constituents have raised with me:

Northern Ireland Protocol/’Backstop’

Constituents have raised with me concerns about the length of time the UK may be in the ‘backstop’ (or Northern Ireland protocol) which is in place to ensure the continuation of the ‘soft’ border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in accordance with the Belfast Agreement. The EU and UK are legally bound to work with "best endeavours" to have the future relationship in place through treaty (or treaties) by the end of the Implementation Period - 31st December 2020. The future relationship, ensuring a ‘soft’ border, would mean that there is no need for this ‘backstop’.

If, by July 2020, it appears that the negotiations on the trade agreement will take longer, the UK can request an extension to the implementation period as an alternative to the ‘backstop’ coming into place in 2021. Therefore, if the trade agreement is not in place by 31st December 2020, the UK has a choice of either extending the Implementation Period by one or two years or entering the ‘backstop arrangement’.

The ‘backstop’ involves the UK entering a temporary customs union with the EU with Northern Ireland continuing to have regulatory alignment for good. All this would be replaced by the new trade agreement when it was concluded. The intention would be to do this as quickly as possible.

If the UK were to enter the ‘backstop’, the UK could call for a review at any time when we consider that the future relationship is ready and hence the ‘backstop’ is no longer necessary. If both sides agree the future relationship is ready we would leave the backstop. This judgement would need to be taken in good faith. If there is a disagreement, a special conference would try and resolve the differences. If that failed to reach an agreement it would go to independent arbitration as to whether the ‘backstop’ is still needed to meet the objective or maintaining a ‘soft border’. .Article 50, under which the UK will have left the EU, does not provide for the ‘backstop’ to be a permanent solution. It can only be a bridge to the future relationship.

It is clear that this is one of the most difficult matters in the agreement for many MPs and I understand this. I nevertheless agree with the Attorney General when he said on 3rd December, in supporting the Agreement:

“I do not believe that we are likely to be entrapped in the backstop permanently. I can give reasons why I say that, but my right hon. and learned Friend has foreshadowed them. So I agree with him: this represents a sensible compromise. It has unattractive and unsatisfactory elements for us, but it is for the House to weigh it up against the potential alternatives and to assess whether it amounts to a calculated risk that this Government and this House should take in these circumstances, weighed up against the realities of the alternatives.”

Since the vote was postponed on 11th December, due in part to concerns over the Northern Ireland protocol, the Prime Minister has been working to obtain reassurances that MPs have been seeking. The vote will now take place in the week beginning 14th January 2019.

And there was me thinking he'd written all of those words just for me :)

Good to see our "member" taking a personal interest in his constituency isn't it?
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
The will of the people was "To leave the EU", the manner of that withdrawal was never discussed and as such any deal whatsoever that sees us outside of the EU would fulfill the promise. Nobody voted for a method, they certainly didn't vote for a plan, they voted for an act.

Before the referendum Norway was touted as a good model to follow by many leavers, what happened with that?
 

Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
The will of the people was "To leave the EU", the manner of that withdrawal was never discussed and as such any deal whatsoever that sees us outside of the EU would fulfill the promise. Nobody voted for a method, they certainly didn't vote for a plan, they voted for an act.

Before the referendum Norway was touted as a good model to follow by many leavers, what happened with that?


Too much Heavy Water
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
David Davis - "We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it."

- "Project managers who believe that closing down a project will wreck their careers are tempted to carry on in the hope they will have a slight chance of saving their reputations. Both courses carry the risk of disaster for those responsible for a project, but one—abandonment—is often far better for the company."

- "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."


Michael Gove - "The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want."

Liam Fox - "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history."

John Redwood - "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation."

And the winner is -

Nigel Farage - "To me, Brexit is easy."
 

Perrier

Banned
looking to be an entertaining evening on sky news tonight .

i was thinking of purchasing a projector setup just so i can see her 'stroke face' on a 120" screen.
One thing is for sure , Its gonna be a humiliating defeat for her tonight that will mark her place in the history books as a complete embarrassment of a PM.

righto , wheres my popcorn :D
 

BobClay

Well-Known Forumite
You choose to run a country via a referendum ... you have to bite the shit biscuit that goes with it. Meanwhile I would personally take David Cameron out back and blow his head off. I almost (and it’s a f****** big almost) feel sorry for May. Meanwhile for those Brexiteers who are pulling their puds at the thought of success .. it better be the land of paved gold you hope for, because if it isn’t ... hiding places are going to be heavily occupied.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
A lot of countries have regular referendums, and referendums where the outcome is binding.

You do have to have a properly informed population and regulate the campaigns to avoid the sort of childish fantasies that are peddled here, but it can be done.
 

BobClay

Well-Known Forumite
I’ll take your word for it. But pardon me if I remain deeply sceptical, certainly for this country. There’s enough BS going around in democracy without opening yet another large bore crap valve.
 

Cue

Well-Known Forumite

Always one to tow the line.

Realistically if the options are "no deal" or "May's Deal", May's deal is probably better, we'd still be under EU rule in every way, shape and form but have no say in things - which when we've already shown that Britain doesn't always make sensible group decisions may not be the worst thing to happen.

Remaining outright would of course be better.
 
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