tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
I couldn't possibly recommend a single party as they are all full of shit, ukip included. Give me reason to trust a politician and you'll get a better answer, but to me they all appear to be self serving twats.
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How will you vote in the Staffordshire County Council elections 2013?
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
ATJ
Well-Known Forumite
No it's not.
I don't support any political party. UKIP, however, are not the alternative. If Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems are three cheeks of the same arse, UKIP is the the arsehole.
The political system is broken, the solution is not to vote in something even more broken and I'm not going to post what I think the solution actually is on a public forum.
Each to their own, as a public forum you entitled to write what you want (within the boundaries of this forum) but what I find strange is you hold forthright views on UKIP and politics in general but not prepared to put forward a positive alternative in it's place.
And that concerns me in general as no one is saying anything positive about mainstream politics
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
But are you suggesting that ukip policies are positive alternatives?
I'm just interested to know where you are coming from in the debate - i am not yer typical 'you are a z, therefore you are an x, because i am a y' kind of guy - but i do think that whatever anybody thinks about the 'main' parties, the kippers are really quite bonkers.
If for no other reason than that one of the main planks of their tree house is a poll tax. Historically, the idea of introducing a poll tax has lead to nothing but trouble. The argument that people are voting for this party in ignorance of what they actually stand for is, i think, a perfectly reasonable one.
I challenge anyone to put their hand on heart and say they are in total agreement with all the policies of the party they support and they shouldn't do as politicians should always be challenged and not become complacent.
The whole reason of being for UKIP is their opposition to the European Union and this to me is the biggest issue facing the UK, whether or not we carry on the road to ever closer union that Europe will need to follow if it has any chance of making the Euro work, or the UK decides that this isn't for us and become semi detached or fully detached from the EU. Maybe I'm being idealistic but wouldn't it be better for our own parliament and law courts to pass the laws for this country and the government we elect decide our immigration policy etc.
I am of the believe that UKIP would dissolve after a referendum and I feel there is going to be a re-alignment in politics with Labour and the Lib Dems forming a centre left party with the Tories and UKIP forming a party of the right.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
The points below are not just the sentimental prejudices of left-leaning politicians, they are facts based on scientific evidence.
• People trust each other more in more equal countries.
• More students drop out of high school in the more unequal US states.
• Children in the more equal US states score better in maths and reading.
• More equal countries have fewer people in prison – the US imprisons people
at 14 times the rate of Japan.
• If you had poor parents, you are more likely to become rich in equal societies
like Norway, and much less likely in the unequal US. Social mobility has declined in
Britain in recent years.
• Unequal societies are more violent, with more homicide.
• Fewer teenagers become pregnant in more equal societies.
• Child well-being, as measured by the UNICEF Index, is best in more equal countries.
Among rich countries it is worst in the UK.
• More equal countries recycle more of their waste.
• It’s not just the poor people in more equal countries that benefit from greater equality;
rich people in more equal societies do better than rich people in less equal societies.
And inequality also makes you ill;for more on health and inequality see the box on page 23.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Well that really does depend.
For example, you jumped upon Gramaisc's post earlier, where he was referring to the popularity of the rabid Austrian fellow, as if he was 'bringing up the war' - when if you think about it he was really talking about 'popular politics' and the pitfalls therein. The question of whether a leader such as that is preferable to the status quo is a pertinent one, is it not?
In an era where we have invested a great deal of lives and money in ridding ourselves of 'unsuitable' leaders abroad, we seem to be hell bent on voting them into office 'at home'.
If 30% of the electorate could be described as 'hell bent' that is - which of course it can't - and if Farage could be described as suitably 'unsuitable' - which of course... erm ... jury out, sort of thing...
I would pretty much agree with what you say, it's how you achieve equality that is question. As I've said before the state is paying the poor to stay where they are. Tony Blair hit the nail on the head when he said 'people need a hand up not a hand out'. The Labour Party had a golden opportunity when they took power in 1997 to tackle long term welfare dependency when we had a growing economy but shied away from what would have been tough decisions. Indeed the relaxation of immigration and opening the borders to Eastern Europeans made it harder for long term unemployed to break into the jobs market.
I was active within the Labour Party from 1988 till 2007 but the last 5 years I was increasingly questioning the direction of the party. The aim of getting 50% of people to university was noble but I questioned what about the other 50% who seemed to be ignored. I felt Labour was chasing the middle class vote and was taking for granted it's traditional support and to this effect they became detached from it's core support.
There are no quick and easy answers to tackle inequality but through education and inspiring people to better themselves things can improve.
Lunar Scorpion
Anarchy in the UK
If having a reputation as a fascist is your thing, you could always vote BNP.
Lunar Scorpion
Anarchy in the UK
Or to look at it another way, they are ensuring that they can stay alive and possibly even (although rather unlikely the way things are going) be able to do something that means they can improve their lot.
Indeed, but if you're too busy trying to stay alive you don't have much room for anything else in your life. I know what it's like to live on benefits, I also know what it's like to be in a part time (20-25 hours - I would find it difficult to cope with much more) low paid job. There isn't really much difference, and I didn't really notice much, if any, change in disposable income - I was still just as bloody poor and had less time to do what I wanted. It was only when I'd passed the assessment phase of ESA and had a bit extra that I felt I could afford to have internet at home.
Why is that perceived opinion about me when your private messaging your mates?
Honestly I think we are going round in circles. Is wanting a immigration policy that matches the needs of the country to whom we let in making me a fascist? I could take offence at that slur but have big enough shoulders to accept the rough and tumble on here and will continue to post what I believe and not treat this forum as a beauty contest as others do
Lunar Scorpion
Anarchy in the UK
You asked for an alternative party to vote for, I gave you a suggestion. I don't for anyone - I think they're all pretty much as bad as each other and don't want any of them, so you were never going to get a serious answer from me.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Apart from the immigration, what else about ukip actually appeals?
ATJ
Well-Known Forumite
Why do you persist in insinuating that your posted opinion is your true opinion but opinions opposite to your own are all show and/or ignorant piousness?
The BNP and UKIP are very different beasts, the only thing they have in common is they are both anti-EU!
If they are so similar why is it mainly Labour supporters that vote BNP and mainly Tory supporters that vote UKIP?
I don't know the details of this case but I do know that the person in question was a man who had a sex change and became a women, this person rose to some position of power within UKIP and was selected to stand for the EU parliament and subsequently was elected a member of the EU parliament for the West Midlands.
That doesn't smack of institutionalised homophobia within UKIP to me!
To be fair immigration is a side issue, number one concern is who governs the UK. The UK is big enough to stand on it's own feet and shouldn't have it's laws passed by Brussels nor should Strasbourg be able to over rule our High Courts. It disappoints me that being anti EU is seen as left or right (indeed the RMT union want the UK to leave the EU and I would like anyone to say to Bob Crow that he is right wing!), shouldn't all politicians of all colours want the buck to stop at Westminster, or isn't it they are quite happy to pass over power to Europe and treat our parliament as a Student's Union debating Society.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
I really don't think that is the case, i'm fairly sure she was a woman to begin with.
As i understand it, she did indeed rise to become an MEP, but was 'sacked' by UKIP for refusing to deal with some of their more unsavoury European partners whose views on homosexuality were at odds with her being openly gay. The fact that the party were not willing to stand by her can be seen as at least questionable. A court of law certainly agreed they had been discriminatory.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Last time I looked UKIP favoured a flat tax rate of around 30%, is this still the case? If so I could never vote for them, even though they think it shouldn't be paid on minimum wage the difference to someone earning 20-40k will be huge. Only the very low earners or very high ones will benefit, I've had a drink so can't be bothered to work out the figures right now but I suspect you'd need to be on less than £15k or at least £45k to stand a chance of benefitting from this policy?