Lunar Scorpion said:
The majority don't want it because they have been conditioned into Capitalism. I really, really struggle to see why any free-thinking person wouldn't want a society where everyone's needs are met - unless they are evil bastards who like to see people suffering (or even worse, brush it under the carpet so that they don't see it).
So, like I said, why don't they work the current system to get what they want, then opt out? Surely a few years of actual work is better than a lifetime of wishing?
Lunar Scorpion said:
Your point is? You think I haven't got the very same quote on my wall (well, I haven't got it up at the moment but that's the plan when I get my own place)?
My point is, do something about it. If you actually believe its something that can work, go for it. Very few people get what they want by sitting by and wishing. I actually believe a semi workable model could exist, although they'd have to trade somehow with the 'outside world' if only for medication and other such trappings of life unlikely to be made in a field. I cannot believe in the idea that one need not trade the strength of his arm for the ability to exist, because that involves using somebody elses arm to do it for you (i.e. workers, that which they want to abolish. Or slaves I suppose if money does not exist). I do however believe that a number of likeminded people could help sustain each other, as long as they all have the strength of the community at heart. I do not believe this is possible in the general community, due to apathy/laziness/greed inherent in a lot of the population.
Lunar Scorpion said:
Fine, so why can't you just agree to disagree and BOG OFF...
Because I am curious, and it was you who wants to live in this utopian society so mentioned it in the first place. Just because I am part of the evil capitalist machine does necessarily mean I think it is the RIGHT system - its just the system that seems most likely to work to me. I'm all for new ideas, but they need thinking through first. If I thought this was a sustainable model I'd actually see if it was possible to set something up, I ust can't see it working at present though.
Lunar Scorpion said:
Well at some point we're going to have to learn to live without it anyway, as it's running out rather quickly.
Yes, but we have a period of readjustment. We still have it now, and can gradually move to something else. Despite its pitfalls nuclear seems the way to go, until we can get more effective wind farms anyway. The problem with 'natural' power is that its not consistant, we still need 'regular' power to back it up with. Hopefully this is something we can get away from.
Lunar Scorpion said:
So now you have told me how it can "never" work and spat your miserable cynicism at me, do you think you can drop the fooking subject? You will clearly don't understand the philosophical basis of it so why are you WASTING so much of your time and effort trying to convince me that me ideals are worthless and I should subscribe to your way, when it just makes me even more resentful and less likely to?
Actually I can see exactly why in theory it is so attractive, I am just having trouble with seeing how it could work in the real world. The thing is though, I AM interested. Are you kidding me, a world without money where everyone gets what they want, and doesn't have to work to get it? You're talking Star Trek FFS, it'd be ace! I just don't see who does the work, if we don't have to? Someone needs to, as technology is not there yet to replace our efforts. If we cut back the UK population to maybe 5% of what it currently is, we could all live in little villages again surrounded by small holdings. Where do the other 95% of the UK population go though? This is their home after all.
Lunar Scorpion said:
Why would you need space to expand, when you have enough space?
Space is finite, people breed. Especially people who can't use any form of contraception other than natural, as they are self sufficient so can't go buying in tablets or condoms. The current UK population could not survive if we stopped buying in food and switched to small scale farming. We'd need less people or more land.
Lunar Scorpion said:
The distance from his OR HER house would probably be minimal, as this would be organised in communities and the land would likely be open for use by others all working together.
Not once they start breeding, as space is finite. Plus not all land is farmable, hence why historically only land that was fertile was used for human encampments. Its only since we have been able to buy in what we need, that we have inhabited those areas.
Lunar Scorpion said:
You mind find
this,
this and
this useful.
Will look later, I'm at my other job now. Although I'm still getting paid to write this, so its all good