The moral argument of eating meat & dairy

[Withnail]

So, the point still stands - you haven't provided any backing to your rejection of what I originally said that how we treat animals directly affects how we treat people.

TBF human history is littered with examples of humans being beastly to other humans (and other hominids for that matter) that pre-date animal husbandry.

I fear we have to accept that we are - to cross-pollinate from the historical field - nasty, brutish and short. Well maybe not that short but it depends on your point of reference, e.g. definitely shorter than giraffes.

 

[henryscat]

I'd be very interested to see what this statement is based upon - any chance of a link/source?

Sources quoted in Bibliography of Charles Patterson's book I have are... Elizabeth Fisher, Women's Creation: Sexual Evolution and the Shaping of Society (New York: Doubleday, 1979)
Stanley and Roslind Godlovitch and John Harris (eds), Animals, Men and Morals: An Enquiry into the Maltreatment of Non-humans (New York: Taplinger, 1972)
Lori Gruen in Greta Gaard (ed) Ecofemenism: Women, Animals, Nature (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1993)
Gerda Lerner, The Creation of Patriarchy (New York: Oxford University Press, 1986)

Aside from that, I also have The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carol J Adams in me Amazon list but haven't got round to ordering it, but looks to be quite interesting.

 

[tek-monkey]

I'd recommend the Ginger Pig Meat Book, just for a bit of balance. Not got round to ordering it yet, but also looks to be quite interesting. The River Cottage Meat Book is also none too shabby.

 

[Withnail]

The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carol J Adams in me Amazon list but haven't got round to ordering it, but looks to be quite interesting.

Thanks for that, it looks like it may potentially bridge a bit of a gap in another of my theories - will look into it.

 

[Withnail]

TBF human history is littered with examples of humans being beastly to other humans (and other hominids for that matter) that pre-date animal husbandry.

Skeletal studies have the potential to greatly expand our understanding of the
human potential for both violent and nonviolent behaviour... Human skeletal remains,
(in contrast) provide direct evidence of interpersonal violence in both prehistoric
and historically documented societies that is immune to the
interpretive difficulties posed by literary sources (Walker 1997, 2001b). Several
flint arrow points embedded in a person’s spine are not symbolic constructs (Figure 1). They say something indisputable about physical interactions that occurred
between those bones and those stones. Of course, an infinite number of more-or-less likely alternative explanations could be given for such injuries (homicide, burial ritual, hunting accident, scientific hoax, extraterrestrial intervention,
and so on), but the fact remains that the vertebrae have arrow points embedded
in them

For example.

 

[db]

Aside from that, I also have The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carol J Adams in me

really? i have a DVD by the same title, but it's by Mandingo

 

[Withnail]

Sources quoted in Bibliography of Charles Patterson's book I have are... Elizabeth Fisher, Women's Creation: Sexual Evolution and the Shaping of Society (New York: Doubleday, 1979)
Stanley and Roslind Godlovitch and John Harris (eds), Animals, Men and Morals: An Enquiry into the Maltreatment of Non-humans (New York: Taplinger, 1972)
Lori Gruen in Greta Gaard (ed) Ecofemenism: Women, Animals, Nature (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1993)
Gerda Lerner, The Creation of Patriarchy (New York: Oxford University Press, 1986)

Aside from that, I also have The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carol J Adams in me Amazon list but haven't got round to ordering it, but looks to be quite interesting.

That has been indeed interesting - the rise of Patriarchy is something that intrigues me very much - i'm a little unconvinced by some of the arguments put forward by the above,though most of what i've read has been extracts and/or references to the references, sort of thing, so i'll keep an open mind.

Nonetheless very interesting - much obliged henryscat , much food for thought...

 

[henryscat]

Viewers complain about calves being shot on telly -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...age-harrowing-scenes-day-old-calves-shot.html

If all those 58 complainants to channel 4 and 10 to OFCOM were so shocked, I imagine they've given up dairy straight away then........

 

[Withnail]

I imagine they recovered from such a bad shock with a nice cup of tea - milk and two sugars.

Idiots.

 

[tek-monkey]

You gotta laugh, what did they think happened to all the cows they don't want?

 

[Gramaisc]

Vegetable vending machine.*

*Warning - Also contains eggs.

 

[henryscat]

Interesting article in the Indescribably:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/is-this-the-end-of-meat-7765871.html

 

[tek-monkey]

If we werent so fussy things would be a lot better, the western world wastes an awful lot of the animal because we're too damn picky. I know people who will only buy pork loin for example, yet the belly pork I just ate was lovely.

 

[Trumpet]

If we werent so fussy things would be a lot better, the western world wastes an awful lot of the animal because we're too damn picky. I know people who will only buy pork loin for example, yet the belly pork I just ate was lovely.

Same goes for offal, as you say many people are just too picky (spoilt?).

 

[United57]

" If it has four legs and is not a chair, has wings and is not an aeroplane, or swims and is not a submarine, the Cantonese will eat it." Prince Philip

Certainly not picky

 

[tek-monkey]

Same goes for offal, as you say many people are just too picky (spoilt?).

I'll admit I'm a bit picky with offal. I can't get over the smell of tripe, and have a gag reflex before it gets near my mouth, so have written that off. I also don't like liver, and am squeemish about brains for some reason so again I'm loathe to try. Pretty much anything else is fair game though, I only first tried stuffed lambs hearts last year but love them!

Insects are off the menu, not a chance. Don't know why, ate one once when wasted as a bet but that is the last time!

 

[Trumpet]

Lambs hearts are also nice sliced and grilled, would imagine barbequeing would work as well.

 

[LongGoneFarAway]

I'm lucky enough to live in a country that allows me to keep firearms with little fuss. I hunt, mainly for deer, and eat everything I harvest. After field dressing a deer, I'll take it to a meat cutter who professionally butchers and wraps it in perparation for the freezer with virtually no waste. I have no qualms about this... the animal lives a totally natural life, no 'carbon footprint' related to the rearing and feeding of the animal, no steroids or growth hormones in the meat, and at the time of death, the animal never knew what hit it as opposed to a cow standing in line watching the animal in front get it's throat cut. If I can't guarantee a clean shot, I don't pull the trigger!

And the added bonus of being totally halal free... no invocation to some 7th century pedophile or his boss...

Delicious!

 

[Glam]

I'm lucky enough to live in a country that allows me to keep firearms with little fuss. I hunt, mainly for deer, and eat everything I harvest. After field dressing a deer, I'll take it to a meat cutter who professionally butchers and wraps it in perparation for the freezer with virtually no waste. I have no qualms about this... the animal lives a totally natural life, no 'carbon footprint' related to the rearing and feeding of the animal, no steroids or growth hormones in the meat, and at the time of death, the animal never knew what hit it as opposed to a cow standing in line watching the animal in front get it's throat cut. If I can't guarantee a clean shot, I don't pull the trigger!

And the added bonus of being totally halal free... no invocation to some 7th century pedophile or his boss...

Delicious!

Take it you ain't English then?

 

[LongGoneFarAway]

Take it you ain't English then?

Born & raised in Stafford, lived on Baswich & Wildwood until I was 33. Managed to escape while Blair & labour were busy destroying everything that was good about the country.