Buying your dead pig from Tesco or Sainsbury?

[henryscat]

....then please have a read of this investigation into their supplying farms:

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_factory//2920//

As usual the "Red Tractor" symbol standards and any statements about welfare by supermarkets are proved meaningless.

I can't imagine other supermarkets' suppliers being any better.

 

[1JKz]

Buying meat of any sort/quality is a mine field.

A lot of trust has to be put forward by the consumer, supplier and producer.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

Buying meat of any sort/quality is a mine field.

A lot of trust has to be put forward by the consumer, supplier and producer.

Agreed. For the average consumer the food chain (and not just the chain as it relates to meat products) is an absolute minefield to understand. The Supermarkets are the biggest vent for this lack of accurate information anger as they control the vast, vast majority of the UK food market but I'm sure there are smaller retailers uncluding some butchers / meat stalls on markets that have equally shady practices.

With regards to meat I make a point of never buying cheap and I steer clear of processed meat. I'd rather eat less meat and eat better quality but of course in truth in terms of the quality and origin unless you are the person administering the slaughtering you don't really know where it has come from or how it has been treated irrespective of where you choose to buy it from. I don't think a witchhunt against Supermarkets is either fair or helpful.

 

[tek-monkey]

So where should we be buying our meat from then? I don't have enough land to raise my own (VERY jealous of my Aussie mate who now keeps geese/pigs/sheep etc.) And don't say we shouldn't, because I still will.

You have a dog don't you? Where do you get the meat to feed that?

 

[Gramaisc]

You have a dog don't you? Where do you get the meat to feed that?

It is possible to have a veggie dog - fairly easily, I believe..

http://www.veggiepet.co.uk/

http://www.veggiepets.com/

..a veggie cat is a bit more of a struggle..

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

So where should we be buying our meat from then? I don't have enough land to raise my own (VERY jealous of my Aussie mate who now keeps geese/pigs/sheep etc.) And don't say we shouldn't, because I still will.

You have a dog don't you? Where do you get the meat to feed that?

I think its a case of just doing your own risk assessment on what you buy and where you buy it from. As I said I buy all my meat from my local butcher who I know quite well. Its free range and therefore not cheap but as I say I'd rather buy less and at least have a better idea on origin and quality than buy more cheap mechanically recovered tat and then find out via a news report scandal that I've been chewing on steriod fed dobbin.

 

[db]

So where should we be buying our meat from then?

please tell me you didn't really just ask henry scat that?! you're basically inviting an enormous diatribe about why he's better than you because he eats tofu..

i tend to buy all my meat from mottershead on weeping cross these days.. not because of any moral issue - just because their meat is absolutely amazing.. their pork & chive sausages are particularly smashing - i'm having them tonight with mash, peas & gravy, in fact!

 

[db]

that being said, tesco's finest cumberland sausages are absolutely fine in a pinch, and they're on special offer atm

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=255546879

 

[tek-monkey]

please tell me you didn't really just ask henry scat that?! you're basically inviting an enormous diatribe about why he's better than you because he eats tofu..

Yeah but I don't have a car, so its 1 all

 

[tek-monkey]

It is possible to have a veggie dog - fairly easily, I believe..

http://www.veggiepet.co.uk/

http://www.veggiepets.com/

..a veggie cat is a bit more of a struggle..

Personally I find the idea of forcing your beliefs onto a pet animal rather cruel, if you can't care for the animal in the proper way then you shouldn't have one.

 

[henryscat]

So where should we be buying our meat from then? I don't have enough land to raise my own (VERY jealous of my Aussie mate who now keeps geese/pigs/sheep etc.) And don't say we shouldn't, because I still will.

Simple question - do you condone what is shown so that you can eat meat? Yes or no? If no, then it is for you to answer your first question and not me. If yes, then I'd be interested in your justification.

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/Arnoeconvulsingpiglet360.png
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/Twinwoodweaners4small.png

You have a dog don't you?

No.



Admin Edit: Inline images change to links at the request of several members.

 

[henryscat]

Agreed. For the average consumer the food chain (and not just the chain as it relates to meat products) is an absolute minefield to understand. The Supermarkets are the biggest vent for this lack of accurate information anger as they control the vast, vast majority of the UK food market but I'm sure there are smaller retailers uncluding some butchers / meat stalls on markets that have equally shady practices.

With regards to meat I make a point of never buying cheap and I steer clear of processed meat. I'd rather eat less meat and eat better quality but of course in truth in terms of the quality and origin unless you are the person administering the slaughtering you don't really know where it has come from or how it has been treated irrespective of where you choose to buy it from. I don't think a witchhunt against Supermarkets is either fair or helpful.

There's a huge contradiction in your post. "Supermarkets....control the vast majority of the UK foot market" - yes. "I don't think a witch hunt against supermarkets is either fair or helpful" - eh? I wouldn't call it a witch hunt. As you say, they have a huge amount of control and with that comes responsibility, which they are not taking. What precisely is not fair about tackling them? They have the power to dictate standards and enforce them on suppliers due to their buying power. Equally supermarkets deliberately push down prices as far as they can and they know where meat is concerned that this will always come at the cost of poorer welfare. It isn't rocket science. Local and national government are also at fault, because the levels of inspection anf enforcement are pathetic.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

There's a huge contradiction in your post. "Supermarkets....control the vast majority of the UK foot market" - yes. "I don't think a witch hunt against supermarkets is either fair or helpful" - eh? I wouldn't call it a witch hunt. As you say, they have a huge amount of control and with that comes responsibility, which they are not taking. What precisely is not fair about tackling them? They have the power to dictate standards and enforce them on suppliers due to their buying power. Equally supermarkets deliberately push down prices as far as they can and they know where meat is concerned that this will always come at the cost of poorer welfare. It isn't rocket science. Local and national government are also at fault, because the levels of inspection anf enforcement are pathetic.

Once again you excel yourself at being able to repky to a post without actually having read it. There wasn't a contradiction merely an acknowledgement that if you are buying meat there are other dodgy sellers out there. Due to the fact that the Supermarkets are so large they are also the most closely monitored & inspected. I mentioned witch hunt because your argument as usual lacked any balance & just looks like a supermarket vendetta. You also fail to recognise that the food industry & the supply chain is global & thus even the almighty supermarkets can get caught out. The horse meat scandal being a prime example.

Also it isn't so much the pictures above that I find offensive as you for posting them. I think it was a complete over the top response to Tek's post. Yes we all know animals are mistreated just like we all know that there are children who are mistreated. Do we need it shoved in our face as a blunt way of making a wayward point by idiots like you? No.

 

[tek-monkey]

Simple question - do you condone what is shown so that you can eat meat? Yes or no? If no, then it is for you to answer your first question and not me. If yes, then I'd be interested in your justification.

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/Arnoeconvulsingpiglet360.png
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/Twinwoodweaners4small.png

Yes I do, because they are tasty. I am an omnivore with a bias towards flesh, genetically what else am I? My teeth tell my history, I am yet to find a reason to deny it. If flesh cost more I'd buy less, but I'd still buy it.

No.

Odd, could have sworn you had a dog. Must be the CJD kicking in.

 

[Roland]

I spent 15 years working on various pig farms around the country and looking back some of the things we did and how the pigs were kept wasn't right but a lot has changed since then and pigs are now kept in much more pig friendly conditions.

Looking at the list of 'terrible' things there doesn't seem to be anything too bad there:-

• 'Injured sows incarcerated in farrowing crates'

Farrowing crates are used to protect the piglets from being crushed or eaten by the sow. If the sow is injured then she can be treated more easily in a crate.

• 'A dying piglet frothing at the mouth'
• No doubt the piglet would put out of it's misery very quickly.
• 'Others gasping for air and coughing'
• This sounds the worst to me, if they are gasping for air they are either ill or there is a problem with ventilation, I doubt it would be the latter so they would either be treated or if too ill they would be put out of their misery.
• 'Dead pigs and piglets left on the ground'
• We used to collect dead pigs once a day so they might be left lying around for a few hours but not in the pen with the other pigs, I don't see a problem with that.
• 'Barren units'
• Don't know what that is.
• 'Colony of rats inside feed bin'

Rats are a problem everywhere, I have them at the bottom of my garden.

• 'Routine tail-docking'

Tail docking is done at birth to stop them chewing each other tails later on. If left they can chew each others tails right back to the body which can kill them. To wait until there is a tail biting problem before docking is cruel because it hurts a lot more when they are older.

• 'An incinerator full of bodies waiting to be burned'
• So?

I would never buy pork from a supermarket because it is far too lean and tastless and supermarkets pay farmers such a low price that they may be tempted to cut corners. I always go to a specialist butcher and only buy if there is a good layer of fat on the pork. Talk to someone like Perry's in Eccleshall and they can usually tell you what breed of pig and who bred it because they slaughter on site.

Pig farmers are under huge financial pressure to provide cheap meat and compete with cheap foreign imports from countries with far worse animal welfare than the UK.

 

[Hetairoi]

At least you know that any pork you buy hasn't been 'ritually slaughtered'!

 

[db]

Simple question - do you condone what is shown so that you can eat meat? Yes or no?

like tek (and the millions of others who eat meat and will continue to eat meat), yes..

If no, then it is for you to answer your first question and not me. If yes, then I'd be interested in your justification.

no, you wouldn't be interested at all, as you have demonstrated countless times.. people have given their justification over and over and over again - they like meat, simple as that - but you hand-wave that away and demand further justification.. i would say i feel sorry for you, living in a world where every single thing you do and think must be driven by objective justification and you don't do anything just because you like it, but you make it hard for anyone for feel sorry for you by virtue of being a massive pleb..

 

[1JKz]

...oh boy, here we go again, a simple thread starter has been blown out of all proportion and all manner of (impo) improper posts, and from the outside in (at a guess) it looks like school playground cackles.

I'm starting to be convinced it's best to sit back and read the threads and posts without making comment, but what's the point in that, i may aswell say goodbye to SF!

 

[Jonah]

Simple question - do you condone what is shown so that you can eat meat? Yes or no? If no, then it is for you to answer your first question and not me. If yes, then I'd be interested in your justification.

**photos removed**


No.

Are those photos really necessary? Personally I can look at them without getting upset or distressed but other forum members may not.
You have provided a link which gives information about the issue and has links to video of the farms involved so why post photos? Was it just for the shock factor?

 

[1JKz]

...this is Henryscat's post, he can do as he pleases, if you don't like it, leave the thread or start another, it's that simple.