monkey bidness
Well-Known Forumite
Presumably then, HS will be asking to have the Thread title amended? Holding my breath.
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Buying your dead pig from Tesco or Sainsbury?
- Thread starter henryscat
- Start date
Sorry don't know how to do the little boxes for the quote and the reply underneath so will have to aswer all in one go.
Sows are big clumsy things and will cruch piglets when lying down if not in a crate, gilts (sows having thier first litter) will often attack the piglets. Crates help to stop these problem they do not cause them and the sows are only in them for a short time.
What are the mortality rates? Some of these farms are huge so daily deaths are to be expected. We used to have forty sows give birth a week and it is common for at least one piglet to be still born per litter.
I haven't worked in the industry for over twenty years so was unaware that tail docking was now illegal. We used to castrate without anesthetic, that was cruel!
Pigs attack other pigs they do not know it is natural nothing to do with the conditions.
You are right about cheap meat undermining animal welfare, if you are going to eat meat then try to make sure you buy good quality from a reliable source and pay a sensible price!
I find it hard to believe that you (Henryscat) are genuinely concerned with animal welfare when you won't even condemn ritual slaughter as discussed in a recent thread either that or you won't condemn it because to do so would be politically unacceptable.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Well, it would be interesting to know if either of them had never used this supplier - or had done so at some point but no longer do so. It must be a quite time consuming process for an outfit such as Animal Aid to get their 'man' into a position to gather such gen.
Given what we have recently been made aware of about the 'embedding', as 'twere, of Undercover Knacker* in such groups, coupled with the whole Leveson 'daylight' shone 'pon what Knacker does for a fee, is it not entirely beyond the bounds of reason to wonder whether this particular story has been knackered by Knacker?
Probably - must admit i'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories myself.
* dead child's name
monkey bidness
Well-Known Forumite
Sorry, I'm knackered. Off to bed.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Erm - do pigs 'naturally' end up in huge barns where they are forced to be with pigs they do not know? If not then that would suggest it has quite a lot to do with the conditions.
Funny you should say that, because it's funny.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
But the Nazis also used slave labour...
flossietoo
Well-Known Forumite
We have kept pigs. They lived outdoors, with willow shelters for shade and a mud wallow for hot days. One of the first pigs we had didn't grow as fast as the others and eventually it became obvious she was ill. The vet came out to her a few times and tried to help but finally surmised that she had some kind of brain disease or stroke.
The biggest pig in the group appointed herself guardian of the sick pig. She stuck by her and would nudge her towards the food and into the ark at night, where she slept alongside.
In the end the sick pig was clearly suffering and had to be destroyed. The other pigs were very concerned by her absence and kept looking for her in the furthest corners of the field where she had previously become stranded.
None of our pigs were ever aggressive to each other, although I did end up in hospital once when one hurtled towards me when I was bringing their breakfast and failed to stop in time.
If they are reared and housed naturally, experience suggests they are certainly not aggressive.
I am a vegetarian. That is not something that will ever change. I married a carnivore. I am unlikely to change that, either. I wish we didnt have meat in the house but do respect the fact that my husband doesn't buy meat from supermarkets. He has reared his own animals to the highest welfare standards and buys meat from an excellent farm, which operates its own butchery.
Regarding the posting of images, I think HC is possibly right, there are some issues which we don't, generally, explore. I follow Viva on Facebook and there are some pictures and videos which I just can't bring myself to open.
Sorry I didn't make myself very clear, it was late and there was a lot to answer.
Pigs will attack other pigs they do not know, it usually stops after they have got used to each other. The more space they have the more room they have to get away from each other so mixing pigs in small pens is asking for trouble. Either keep them in litter groups in smaller pens or if you have to mix them then huge barns ,with plenty of room and straw, or keeping them outdoors will minimise the problem.
There is no doubt that cramped conditions makes the problem worse.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
To those of you who decided to report the fact I'd posted photos from the Animal Aid investigation - if you eat meat, particularly any that is factory farmed: it is massively hypocritical to request those photos be removed if you intend to carry on eating meat. I can only assume you can't cope with the guilt. It also fits exactly the model of following a violent ideology - that you want it to remain hidden.
To admin- I think it was a completely unnecessary and unjustified act of censorship. You didn't have the courtesy to contact me about it either.
To admin- I think it was a completely unnecessary and unjustified act of censorship. You didn't have the courtesy to contact me about it either.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
To be fair admin has to weigh up the items posted, the relevancy of the title to the pictures enclosed and the effect the pictures posted may have. Changing them to a link seems fine to me, but I'm sure thats just because I'm a flesh eating zombie.
You certainly aren't the first post to have its images censored, and you wont be the last. There are too many laws about online publishing that admin could fall foul of, a link removes the responsibility. If anyone cares they will click it, if they don't then its not an issue.
You certainly aren't the first post to have its images censored, and you wont be the last. There are too many laws about online publishing that admin could fall foul of, a link removes the responsibility. If anyone cares they will click it, if they don't then its not an issue.
I have no problem with your photo's at all!
Animal welfare in this country is not as good as it could be but it is a lot better than most countries.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
It's a tricky one to be sure.
Personally i think the pics were 'fair game' so to speak - as 1JKz tried to say (or rather said - i understood his 'angle'), to a certain extent you can choose to participate, or not, in a thread that does, or does not, interest you. If, like myself, you tend to read everything regardless, you might find yourself being confronted with images you find uncomfortable - but is it really any different to having pictures of blinded bunnies on an anti-animal-experiment type stall in Market Square sort of thing?
But then, if ...
Whether the removal of such images is indicative of this, that or the other mindset in those that called for their removal is, in the circumstances, rather of secondary importance, one would have thought, to the Admin person, who is on the whole rather uncensorious in the grand scheme of things.
several commas were harmed in the making of this post, sorry
Personally i think the pics were 'fair game' so to speak - as 1JKz tried to say (or rather said - i understood his 'angle'), to a certain extent you can choose to participate, or not, in a thread that does, or does not, interest you. If, like myself, you tend to read everything regardless, you might find yourself being confronted with images you find uncomfortable - but is it really any different to having pictures of blinded bunnies on an anti-animal-experiment type stall in Market Square sort of thing?
But then, if ...
... then it seems sensible to substitute links for pics.
Whether the removal of such images is indicative of this, that or the other mindset in those that called for their removal is, in the circumstances, rather of secondary importance, one would have thought, to the Admin person, who is on the whole rather uncensorious in the grand scheme of things.
several commas were harmed in the making of this post, sorry
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Please let's not pretend the photos were removed for fear of legal reprisal. They were removed because some forum members reported them and instead of leaving them because they are directly relevant to the points under discussion they were censored.
There is something of an inconsistency here because when I posted a copy of the BNPs leaflet here: http://www.staffordforum.com/xf/ind...ed-illegal-in-poland.12254/page-2#post-195668 there were no complaints. Actually I find the image on that leaflet particularly unpleasant, but it was never the less relevant to post it. It isn't unreasonable to assume that many regular forumites will have read both threads. I can only conclude in the ritual slaughter thread my post wasn't considered offensive because I imagine the thought process is "it is only those religious types responsible for killing animals in horrific ways and not us normal meat eaters"
The photos were removed because they directly confronted behaviours that people get very uncomfortable at being challenged about because it starts to get at inconsistencies in the application of their moral thinking. Unless someone wishes to come up with an alternative and well reasoned explanation?
I can understand why a veggie or vegan person would not wish to see the photos, but would hope they would understand the relevance.
flossietoo
Well-Known Forumite
I believe that images of that kind are in equal part disturbing and fundamentally important. And I admit I shut my eyes tightly at some of the worst examples.
In an era when most meat comes shrink-wrapped from a supermarket aisle it is easy to forget the reality of what it is. If you are going to decide to eat meat - a decision I fully respect - then at least let it be an informed decision.
When I used to accompany my mother to the butcher's as a child, blood stained the paper on which he placed the liver she was buying, half pigs hung behind him and a sickly smell of death hung in the air. Now we can browse joints of meat between the fresh veg and the yoghurts.
In the USA at the moment there is a concerted attempt to make it illegal to produce covert videos exposing animal cruelty. That process is being driven by the universities and by 'Big Agriculture'. The first state to adopt that law was Iowa, which wants all cruelty to take place in secret.
I wonder how long before we see an animal activist stranded in an airport transit area? Or find requests for the same laws over here?
In an era when most meat comes shrink-wrapped from a supermarket aisle it is easy to forget the reality of what it is. If you are going to decide to eat meat - a decision I fully respect - then at least let it be an informed decision.
When I used to accompany my mother to the butcher's as a child, blood stained the paper on which he placed the liver she was buying, half pigs hung behind him and a sickly smell of death hung in the air. Now we can browse joints of meat between the fresh veg and the yoghurts.
In the USA at the moment there is a concerted attempt to make it illegal to produce covert videos exposing animal cruelty. That process is being driven by the universities and by 'Big Agriculture'. The first state to adopt that law was Iowa, which wants all cruelty to take place in secret.
I wonder how long before we see an animal activist stranded in an airport transit area? Or find requests for the same laws over here?
flossietoo
Well-Known Forumite
It certainly wasn't me!
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Thank you.
It is true that there are some horrific conditions elsewhere. I think people need to open their eyes properly to where their meat comes from- whichever country it happens to be. That photos were censored on this thread demonstrates a fear of facing what has happened before that neatly packaged meat ends up on a supermarket shelf.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Well I didn't complain!
flossietoo
Well-Known Forumite
I don't think that anyone could suggest that you shy away from the realities of what you eat, Tek
