Coronavirus.

gilbert grape

gilbert grape

Well-Known Forumite
I think lots of people om here will weed out what affects them and put the emphasis on that rather than the information being uncovered, and confirmed, about the control, false news and corruption behind it all!
Making people obscenely rich, scaring the pants off people. locking people down in the name of manipulation and control rather than for their own good. And as for the whole mask thing, Jesus H!!!! What a sham!
But still, people will not hold their hands up and say they've been had. Or will they?
 
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DoggedWalker

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
Not read them, just saw whatever people shared on FB, but my general feeling is if you elect tories don't be surprised when they act like tories.
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I largely doubt any other government would’ve acted differently. Look across Europe to see how consistently measures like face masks and lockdown were applied.

Fundamentally, whatever we think of the Tories, they largely acted to protect people and to keep the country from being overwhelmed. I genuinely believe many ministers will have felt like that was likely to happen.
 
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DoggedWalker

Well-Known Forumite
And as for WhatsApp, pretty sure mine would be full of slagging off colleagues etc. they shouldn’t have been shared outside of the enquiry.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
DoggedWalker said:
I largely doubt any other government would’ve acted differently. Look across Europe to see how consistently measures like face masks and lockdown were applied.

Fundamentally, whatever we think of the Tories, they largely acted to protect people and to keep the country from being overwhelmed. I genuinely believe many ministers will have felt like that was likely to happen.
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My issue with the tories isn't always the actions they took, but when they choose to take them. We are an island, should've been easy to contain things, but even when the population was locked down you could still fly in untested and go wherever you pleased. We sent known infected people into care homes, but refused to let family members visit those dying because of that decision. And of course, pretty relevant to MH, we gave millions (billions?) in PPE contracts to mates of tories, which turned out to be useless and needed to be scrapped, and decided not to pursue any claims to return the taxpayers money. All the while the government were not only breaking the laws they imposed on us on a daily basis, but taking the piss out of us to each other too.

You say you doubt any would have acted differently, I say find me one who acted as bad?
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
DoggedWalker said:
And as for WhatsApp, pretty sure mine would be full of slagging off colleagues etc. they shouldn’t have been shared outside of the enquiry.
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If your phone contains evidence you broke the law do you not feel that evidence should be allowed to be used to convict you?
 
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DoggedWalker

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
My issue with the tories isn't always the actions they took, but when they choose to take them. We are an island, should've been easy to contain things, but even when the population was locked down you could still fly in untested and go wherever you pleased. We sent known infected people into care homes, but refused to let family members visit those dying because of that decision. And of course, pretty relevant to MH, we gave millions (billions?) in PPE contracts to mates of tories, which turned out to be useless and needed to be scrapped, and decided not to pursue any claims to return the taxpayers money. All the while the government were not only breaking the laws they imposed on us on a daily basis, but taking the piss out of us to each other too.

You say you doubt any would have acted differently, I say find me one who acted as bad?
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The contracts issues and wasted money are legitimate issues that deserve proper attention and investigation. The fast-track/VIP lane was a good idea in principle - we needed things to happen quickly without the bureaucracy that goes with supplying anything to a government body. This was obviously abused which is shameful, especially at a time of national crisis. I hope people are found out for that and if they’ve committed crimes, they pay for them.

As for borders etc, we might well be an island but I also understand the wider reasons why we didn’t stop flights; 1) we had thousands of British nationals overseas who should be allowed to return home and 2) the virus was so prevalent that one or two positive cases on a flight wouldn’t make a material difference to the spread of the disease in the UK. Closing then borders sooner is a different argument and one we should’ve considered. But I also thought the first lockdown came too late and so lasted longer.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
DoggedWalker said:
Of course. But The Telegraph isn’t a court and Oakshot, I hope, wouldn’t be on my jury.
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So who is allowed to divulge evidence? If a criminal asks you not to divulge something that incriminates them, where do you feel your legal duty stands?

It's all real, it happened, he hasn't denied it. If anything having it played out in the papers will harm action against MH, but lets face it if it wasn't made public he'd never even be questioned. Evidence of corruption is now in the public domain, I have no issue with that as it forces accountability.

You've gotta be a hell of an idiot to hand over this sort of info willingly to a journalist though!
 
SketchyMagpie

SketchyMagpie

Well-Known Forumite
DoggedWalker said:
Fundamentally, whatever we think of the Tories, they largely acted to protect people and to keep the country from being overwhelmed.
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Though worth remembering the Imperial College London study that estimated that delaying lockdown for a week cost 23,000 lives. Then you also have the situation with care homes receiving hospital patients in March/April 2020 to free up NHS beds with no requirements to keep those patients isolated from residents.

I think it is fair to say they did a lot to protect the country, in the end, but a lot of it was under duress and I'm also not sure that you can really say the same about much beyond that first lockdown.
 
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DoggedWalker

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
So who is allowed to divulge evidence? If a criminal asks you not to divulge something that incriminates them, where do you feel your legal duty stands?

It's all real, it happened, he hasn't denied it. If anything having it played out in the papers will harm action against MH, but lets face it if it wasn't made public he'd never even be questioned. Evidence of corruption is now in the public domain, I have no issue with that as it forces accountability.

You've gotta be a hell of an idiot to hand over this sort of info willingly to a journalist though!
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I’m not sure I’ve seen anything disclosed that could be considered to be criminal. Ministers will have been making high-risk decisions based on the options available to them at the time. Some of them, like care homes feel and look awful, but it’s easy to forget how unprecedented things felt at the time.

I don’t think the papers is the right place for this, it invades not just the privacy of Hancock but also the privacy of third parties who didn’t want to have their laundry aired in public. The proper place for this is the public enquiry, not a paper selectively releasing messages in a staged disclosure that facilitates days of headlines and website clicks.

As for trusting journalists, I imagine there was a hefty NDA and Oakshot and the Telegraph are going to end up owing quite a bit of money.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
The most interesting thing to me is that it's the telegraph, mouthpiece of the tory party, doing it. Can someone smell a dead cat?
 
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DoggedWalker

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
The most interesting thing to me is that it's the telegraph, mouthpiece of the tory party, doing it. Can someone smell a dead cat?
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They were a very anti-lockdown/Covid restrictions newspaper, as was Oakshot, makes sense that they’re in it together.

Besides, the right knows that, short of Rishi pulling some kind of miracle on small boats that can be lorded as a triumph, and the economy suddenly growing at 5%, the Conservatives are gone at the next GE. Something like 29 current MP’s are standing down next time around, because they know the outcome already.
 
The Hawk

The Hawk

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
The most interesting thing to me is that it's the telegraph, mouthpiece of the tory party, doing it. Can someone smell a dead cat?
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tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
DoggedWalker said:
They were a very anti-lockdown/Covid restrictions newspaper, as was Oakshot, makes sense that they’re in it together.

Besides, the right knows that, short of Rishi pulling some kind of miracle on small boats that can be lorded as a triumph, and the economy suddenly growing at 5%, the Conservatives are gone at the next GE. Something like 29 current MP’s are standing down next time around, because they know the outcome already.
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You don't think Rishi pushing all blame onto MH and maybe saying "lessons will be learned" a few times while pointing at asylum seekers won't persuade a good proportion of the country? Although saying NI have an envious position because they are in the single market was a hell of an own goal with the brexit lot I think many didn't realise what he meant so he could get away with it.
 
gilbert grape

gilbert grape

Well-Known Forumite
Still deluded then, even after what’s coming out?
Ahhh, that strange ability to not absorb new information as opposed to what you thought!
It must really hurt your brains!
It’s like you’re being told the real story but you can’t accept it was different to what you’ve been believing so you can’t accept it!
The stories of vacc damage are also now trickling out but you won’t want to know that either. I’ve never known such ignorance and denial.
 
SketchyMagpie

SketchyMagpie

Well-Known Forumite
Mate, you literally came here with "look what this bloke on Facebook thinks" as an argument. Forgive me for not taking it as worth an iota of my time.

In the last two years you have proven that you're not interested in discussion and you ignore every single response to what you post if it's not in line with your agenda (or, apparently, if the poster is female). There is no point in examining any source you share because you're an intellectual dead end. I'm not going to bang my head against this brick wall anymore.
 
gilbert grape

gilbert grape

Well-Known Forumite
SketchyMagpie said:
Mate, you literally came here with "look what this bloke on Facebook thinks" as an argument. Forgive me for not taking it as worth an iota of my time.

In the last two years you have proven that you're not interested in discussion and you ignore every single response to what you post if it's not in line with your agenda (or, apparently, if the poster is female). There is no point in examining any source you share because you're an intellectual dead end. I'm not going to bang my head against this brick wall anymore.
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Wow!!! Deluded and arrogant wrapped up in one, not to mention absolute false allegation! All fits in with your beliefs that all you say is gospel!
You might as well have said “la la la la I’m not listening cos it’s getting truer by the day and I feel awkward!”
 
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