Hugh wind turbine appeared.

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Where - quite precisely - is this? I looked today and couldn't see a bloody thing! :)

It's slightly to the right of Beacon Hill - if you are at the best vantage point for it of course.

The best vantage point for anything is always, of course, the Castle - get yourself up there and you can't miss it. :)
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Edit - well that appears to have worked - doesn't stop me thinking that :google: maps is quite considerably shitter than it once was.

It is possible - by a very convoluted route that I can't remember - to revert to the old Google Maps - persevere, it's well worth going back. Even I've managed to do it. I suspect that I will eventually be 'migrated' to the appalling new set-up, but, for now, the relief is well worth the trouble - and, of course, the more people that do revert, the more likely that Google are to understand that change needs to be for the better...
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Hugh Piggott is, of course, a well-known advocate of wind-power - http://scoraigwind.co.uk/ - I wonder if the fortuitous title of this thread is a subliminal message. I can foresee a line of co-franchised "Hugh the Wind Turbine" books sweeping the early reading market and carrying an environmental message to the young technologists of the future. The story lines may be slightly limited, but we could start today with "Hugh the Wind Turbine versus (ex)Hurricane Bertha".

20110915-Windmill-face-Zaanse-Schans.jpg
 

Hetairoi

Well-Known Forumite
Chris, if wind turbines are so wonderful why don't you build one at the Moat House to generate all the electricity you need at a fraction of what it is costing you now?
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
Chris, if wind turbines are so wonderful why don't you build one at the Moat House to generate all the electricity you need at a fraction of what it is costing you now?
I would imagine that would wind up the good folk of Stackton Tressel quite nicely...
 

ChrisLewis

Well-Known Forumite
Chris, if wind turbines are so wonderful why don't you build one at the Moat House to generate all the electricity you need at a fraction of what it is costing you now?

Would love some, but unfortunately as your possibly aware The Moat House is in the valley of the River Penk so it's a no go :-((
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Chris, if wind turbines are so wonderful why don't you build one at the Moat House to generate all the electricity you need at a fraction of what it is costing you now?

I suspect that the reasoning may be similar to why the Moat House doesn't have it's own well, or hospital, or police force, etc..
 

Noah

Well-Known Forumite
We are heading towards an energy gap, where the total generating power will not meet peak demands, in part because of increase in demand and in part because a lot of existing power stations are reaching the end of their lives.

Options

Nuclear. At the moment these supply the base demand, they run steadily and meet the normal non-peak demand. Most of our nuclear stations are reaching, or have reached the end of their intended lives. Although they are the best option for the future we should have started building the replacements for our existing plants 10 or 15 years ago. If we start building now the new ones will not be completed in time to meet the energy gap so something is needed to fill the gap while/if they are built.

Coal. The traditional source of electricity in this country and we are sitting on 300 years supply of the stuff. How long will it take to bring in new coal mines, even if people would be prepared to undertake the work, and how long will it take to build coal fired stations? There are clearly environmental considerations in the use of coal! Even worse, our coal fired stations now use poor quality coal from Eastern Europe that is dirty and even more environmentally unfriendly than our own supplies.

Oil. Environmentally undesirable, expensive and may be imported from unstable areas.

Gas. Environmentally undesirable, the plants are cheap to put up but the electricity is expensive and they are really only suitable to fill in peak demands. Dear Mr Putin, thank you for supplying the gas to generate our electricity, you wouldn't dream of cutting it off, would you.

Wave power. We have lots of lovely waves around our coast and this would work. Unfortunately successful development work in the 1980s was effectively killed when the government falsified results and claimed, wrongly, that it would be uneconomic. Their reason was that they thought people would confuse wave power with tidal generation, the idea of which was already causing protest.

Tidal power. This one would really work, we have large tidal ranges and lots of nice inlets which would be very suitable for damming. Screams of protests from so called environmentalists who haven't the first idea of what the environment and ecology are really about. Tidal generators would destroy the precious Severn Mashes/other local features which have to be kept totally unchanged regardless of the facts. The environment is never static and always changing, you cannot keep it they way you think it ought to be. Given 50 years the coastal marshes etc will be destroyed by rising sea levels and changes in sea water chemistry anyway.

Solar power. Inefficient and uneconomic. Two or three generations of solar generators down the line and it might be worth using, but they have been promising the next generation for too many years now.

Wind power. It works. Watch a field of turbines with the blades slowly turning (and they are meant to turn slowly), it is an attractive sight. They do not reduce property values in the long term, the nimbys panic & sell cheap because of the view of the terrible turbines, thereafter prices go up because people like to see them, they like to think that they are getting green energy from "their" turbines. A lot of the problems come from a small group of professional anti-turbine protesters who turn up wherever windfarms are proposed, spreading a lot of "information" which at the politest can be called inaccurate. Landbased turbines are cost effective and efficient, the windfarms out at sea, beloved of the nimbys, are not because of the greatly increased cost of production.

So lets get on with building windfarms, wave generators and tidal mills until we can construct the new nuclear stations for the future.

And if that lot doesn't generate some debate, nothing will. :strange: Discuss the alternatives.
 

John Marwood

I ♥ cryptic crosswords
Germany did a political sidestep on nuclear power agreeing a massive deal with France to pay them to supply nuclear energy into the next two decades . Nuclear waste and nuclear accidents do not recognise national boundaries , voters do.

Shale gas extraction leads to massive water shortages

New wind turbines increases a need for expensive dirty open-cycle gas back up

The House of Lords trumping station will come on stream in October
 

joshua

Well-Known Forumite
For a moment there JM you started to talk sense but you ended up babbling as always, its good to have you back to your "usual" self ;)
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Actual electricity generation at the present moment - http://www.ukenergywatch.org/Electricity/Realtime . No oil being burnt today - wind is more than twice the output of coal and over half current nuclear output, gas is the major fuel. It's easier to click the link than look at the, out-of-date-by-now, chart below - the figures change every five minutes.

Combined Cycle Gas Turbine 12,249
MW
1,249 KgCO2 s-1
Open Cycle Gas Turbine 0
MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Oil ?
0 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Coal ?
3,221 MW
871 KgCO2 s-1
Nuclear ?
7,465 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Wind ?
4,954 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Pumped Storage Hydro ?
282 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Non Pumped Storage Hydro ?
321 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
Interconnect - France ?
1,997 MW
Unknown
Interconnect - Ireland ?
0 MW
Unknown
Interconnect - Netherlands ?
951 MW
Unknown
Other ?
739 MW
0 KgCO2 s-1
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Not included in the above is solar generation, presumably due to the practical problem of knowing what is actually being generated by the many small-scale installations. The UK has an installed capacity of around 2,500 MW of photo-voltaic generation. So, maybe around 1,000 MW today?

Blackfriars Bridge over the Thames.
solar_century_blackfriars_bridg_482.jpg
 

ChrisLewis

Well-Known Forumite
I suspect that the reasoning may be similar to why the Moat House doesn't have it's own well, or hospital, or police force, etc..



but we do have our own borehole, supplying much of our water need for our farm, plus we have 80 photo -voltaic panels on our farm buildings - our decision to place them on agricultural building was purely for aesthetic reasons and nothing more. This linked to lots of managment work plus building management software has resulted in a year on year reduction of utilities of 12%
 
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