The Big Benefits & Employment Thread

[Gramaisc]

Florence is on a late shift today - I shall make sure that she is aware that your troth has been plighted.

 

[basil]

Good point, well made.......

 

[Florence]

Help!

 

[My Name is URL]

Did anyone see "Benefit Busters" on Thursday last week.... WOW what an insight!

 

[Rikki]

The fact the woman interviewed at the end turned a job down because she would have been worse off said it all really.

 

[My Name is URL]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8226032.stm

I'm kind of in both camps on this one....

Mainly I think the government needs to get a grip and things like this (even if they do "only save £150m") still need to be looked at....

However I do agree that if there is no incentive to shop around then people won't bother....

So maybe the government should let the person keep half of the extra money. That still saves £75m but still encourages people to find cheaper rents.

 

[tek-monkey]

Yeah, bit of a tough one. TBH I can't help thinking many landlords will use the upper limit as what to charge, as they know they can get it, and if there is no benefit to the claimant then they'll just accept paying it. Letting them keep the extra encourages the claimant to actually try to live cheaper, take away that incentive and watch all DSS rentals immediately move to the maximum and benefits payments rise regardless!

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Yeah, bit of a tough one. TBH I can't help thinking many landlords will use the upper limit as what to charge, as they know they can get it, and if there is no benefit to the claimant then they'll just accept paying it. Letting them keep the extra encourages the claimant to actually try to live cheaper, take away that incentive and watch all DSS rentals immediately move to the maximum and benefits payments rise regardless!

Most landlords don't accept people on housing benefit because it takes ages to be processed and is paid in arrears.

 

[Wookie]

Brown promises a job for EVERYONE aged 18 to 24 out of work for 10 months.
How long before someone aged 25 or over takes HMG to court for age discrimination, I wonder...?

 

[My Name is URL]

Not sure on the actual details of this scheme but if it will work how I suspect then its a great idea.....

Offer all of the "capable of work but won't work" people a job and the government pays the employers to take them on so effectively the employer gets a free employee....

The scroungers then would a) refuse to work = cut their benefits completely, b) get sacked on purpose = cut their benefits completely or c) realise that working isn't that bad and pays money so they keep on doing it and move onwards / upwards.

 

[tek-monkey]

Record low for unemployment benefit vs wages

Apparently unemployment benefit is just 10% of average wages. Now as someone who works, but has claimed benefits, I find this a bit of a lie. If we take JSA as £65/week, that means the average person gets £650/week, or am I missing something? Then of course there is housing benefit, free dental/prescriptions etc. Are they honestly saying the average person earns north of £700 a week?

So is it me, or is this bollox?


EDIT: Hmm, just looked at my payslip and I'm on near £450, but of course the gov taxes that so I only see about £300. Hardly fair to include the bit we never see!

 

[djstaffs]

So is it me, or is this bollox?

Its bollox!

 

[Gramaisc]

Are they honestly saying the average person earns north of £700 a week?

The average person doesn't get the average wage as there a significant minority on truly huge money and they raise the average income to a point outside the range of the average person. The average income is not, therefore, necessarily, the average person's income.

I have no intention of explaining how I define the 'average person', but I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

[Rikki]

I wonder if a median or mode would give a more accurate represantation of average?

 

[Gramaisc]

The average is just that, but people seem to imagine that half the people will be below the average and half above it, when, in truth, it is skewed by the few people with very large incomes. Income distribution is not Gaussian.

Notice, also, that I have used the word 'income' and not 'earnings' - just one of my little crusades, you know.

 

[tek-monkey]

So to arrive at the figures for the article, they did something like:

Benefits = JSA only, all other benefits ignored
Wages = national average wage before tax/NI/pension deductions

So my wages before I'm taxed to shit and then have to pay rent are 10x those of someone on benefits after they've paid their rent? I'm sorry, but they have it fookin good! If they wanted more they could always get jobs to top up their 'earnings'.

 

[Rikki]

Your totaly right of course, I just wonder how much the high earners do skew the figure. It would be interesting to know What the figure would be if you removed anyone who qualified for the 50% tax rate.

 

[Gramaisc]

They could well shift it a good bit. Low incomes can't drop below zero, but there's no limit to the other side of the curve.

 

[tek-monkey]

On the plus side my student loan is based on the national average, so I won't have to pay that back for a while!

 

[My Name is URL]

I wonder if a median or mode would give a more accurate represantation of average?

I would suggest median would be a more suitable measure.