Cue
Well-Known Forumite
I may well have been mixing up "one station" and "one state". Though looks like a couple of other stations have popped up around the US too since then.
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Electric cars.
- Thread starter Gramaisc
- Start date
I may well have been mixing up "one station" and "one state". Though looks like a couple of other stations have popped up around the US too since then.
Kickstart
Well-Known Forumite
280 miles at (say) 60mph suggests in the region of 50kWh of electricity. Recharging that in 5 minutes is a 600kW draw. At 240 volts that is 2500 amps. Average house has a max of about 100 amps (maybe less, maybe more).
Improving on that would require a massive increase in the UK power grid.
All the best
Katy
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
With a 100A main fuse and the 230V that we have these days, that means around 23kW can be drawn*, giving a bit over two hours for a 50kWh battery recharge, assuming it all goes in.
Non-domestic charging points may have higher ratings.
*Just be careful not to turn anything else on.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
At this time of year, with the air con on all the time, driving normally (not for economy) on a mix of urban, rural and motorway then the average range on mine is 280-290 miles. Purely on motorway that comes down to 260-280 depending on traffic (the more traffic, the slower the average speed, the greater the range).
In winter, using the pre-heating and the heated seats on the coldest days it was indicating a range of 250-260 in mainly urban and rural. On the coldest day we had last winter, I had to drive to Woking and on that run, admittedly pushing rather hard as there were time constraints, the indicated range came down to 210 miles.
Now my MPB (Miles Per Bladder) is only about 180 miles or 3 hours) so having to stop and charge coincides nicely with that need and the need for coffee, and as Superchargers are spaced about 170 miles apart there has not yet been an issue and I have to say I've never had range anxiety.
Last year we drove to Aix en Provence for our summer hols and the journey took no longer and had no compromises over what it would have in a car with an engine. Driving at French autoroute speeds with the aircon on max due to outside temperature being in the high 30s Celsius the range was still indicating 240 or so miles.
Kickstart
Well-Known Forumite
If electric cars become significant then the power required to service stations for charging them will require fairly major upgrades. Going with 5 minute charges that is 25 houses worth of electric (in max usage) per car being charged. Motorway service station supporting at least a dozen cars simultaneously charging (as they do for refueling with petrol) means 300 houses worth of electric which is a significant amount.
A relative has an electric car (Nissan Leaf). That has a backup when the charging points are out of service. They send a diesel flat bed to take the car to the next working charging station.
All the best
Katy
Cue
Well-Known Forumite
This is probably where the Tesla Powerpacks (not to be confused with the residential Power Wall) could come in. Not entirely sure how much they can output at once but given they're being used in Australia on the grid I imagine a few lined up with some Superchargers could provide the surge of power required - charge them at normal speeds on the grid and then when someone comes to charge they give a very strong burst of power.
If not now, eventually. No massive grid upgrade required, just some very large batteries that can provide the sudden increase in output when necessary.
Disclaimer: I'm a software engineer, not an electrical engineer.
In fact, reading now, it seems this is exactly what they're planning to do
Laurie61
Well-Known Forumite
To stand a chance of meeting power demand for an all electric UK car fleet battery storage would have to be built into the nation grid. It could then be used like hydro storage and charged during off peak and allow existing generation to operate at close to max efficiency.
At some point you would have to start building real power stations as capacity would not meet immediate demand and charge all the battery storage.
Another issue will be when does the Government decide it is losing to much tax revenue from lack of fuel sales and has to charge electric car owners for either road use or power use ?
At some point you would have to start building real power stations as capacity would not meet immediate demand and charge all the battery storage.
Another issue will be when does the Government decide it is losing to much tax revenue from lack of fuel sales and has to charge electric car owners for either road use or power use ?
Kickstart
Well-Known Forumite
Hi
Problem with "storing" it on the national grid is that the problem with the massive localised current draw when a load of cars are being recharged at once. Local storage is a possible solution that Cue is making to avoid this issue, averaging out the local demand over the day.
There is a major issue coming with electricity supply.
And almost certain that electric cars will be subject the heavy extra taxes at some point to maintain government revenue. After all a 40mpg car doing 12k a year is providing ~£1050 in fuel duty and VAT, with VED on top of that.
All the best
Katy
Problem with "storing" it on the national grid is that the problem with the massive localised current draw when a load of cars are being recharged at once. Local storage is a possible solution that Cue is making to avoid this issue, averaging out the local demand over the day.
There is a major issue coming with electricity supply.
And almost certain that electric cars will be subject the heavy extra taxes at some point to maintain government revenue. After all a 40mpg car doing 12k a year is providing ~£1050 in fuel duty and VAT, with VED on top of that.
All the best
Katy
Cue
Well-Known Forumite
I suspect the long term plan does include taxing EVs. But for now they seem to want as many people using them as possible - benefit in kind for an electric vehicle is going down to 2% in 2020 I recently discover, making it appealing to grab one as a company car once more. This is a huge swing from the previous trend where it was gaining % each year (7%, 9% this year, 13%, 16% in 2019)
Laurie61
Well-Known Forumite
Yes, the grid would need improving to manage increased supply. The grid has already come under pressure from private Solar Panel installs, when I looked at the possibility of adding a few to my roof there seemed to be a limit of around 3.5 kw before power suppler would have to inspect local grid to make sure it could cope with new load. More of a problem if you are supplied on pole and overhead lines.
Kickstart
Well-Known Forumite
The increase for a recharging station with vaguely the capacity of a motorway petrol station are massive in comparison. If they are worried about 3.5kW being fed into the local grid then they will really freak at a 7500kW demand for a single motorway recharging station.
All the best
Katy
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
I remember years ago, being reluctantly involved in a scheme with a well-known university, not in this county, who wanted funding to replace hydraulic actuators with high-powered solenoids. They had developed a rather small and fairly dainty prototype and were looking for further funding from industry.
We used hydraulic actuators where the oil pressure was maintained by a nitrogen 'spring', thus allowing very high speeds, with high forces being developed at the same time.
My boss at the time was a great believer in high-tech, magic bullet-style solutions. Whilst he whipped himself up into a frenzy of expectation about never having an oil or nitrogen leak again, I worked out that the battery storage per actuator would be about the size of two shipping containers and, with three actuators per device, the cost of the batteries might just outweigh any possible overall improvement.
I believe that money did change hands, but I managed to avoid any further involvement and nothing ever came of it.
I didn't bother to raise any queries about the intensity of the electromagnetic pulse that would be generated at each shot, but I would have been reluctant to be nearby in the early trials.
We used hydraulic actuators where the oil pressure was maintained by a nitrogen 'spring', thus allowing very high speeds, with high forces being developed at the same time.
My boss at the time was a great believer in high-tech, magic bullet-style solutions. Whilst he whipped himself up into a frenzy of expectation about never having an oil or nitrogen leak again, I worked out that the battery storage per actuator would be about the size of two shipping containers and, with three actuators per device, the cost of the batteries might just outweigh any possible overall improvement.
I believe that money did change hands, but I managed to avoid any further involvement and nothing ever came of it.
I didn't bother to raise any queries about the intensity of the electromagnetic pulse that would be generated at each shot, but I would have been reluctant to be nearby in the early trials.
Lucy
Well-Known Forumite
By the time I'm 58 I'm going to have to get one...
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...m-2040?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...m-2040?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard