GDH property management

[tek-monkey]

I still don't understand this, GDH are still trading so surely GDH are still liable? Or were all contracts with the owning company? How can you buy a company and wipe out all its debts, surely you could do this every few years between a few people and never pay your bills?

 

[Gramaisc]

If GDH are still trading then the basic dispute is between the landlord and GDH. The tenant in this case has apparently followed the required procedures and made all required payments, if GDH fail to pass on the agreed proportion of the rents they have received or to return deposits that they have administered in trust, then that would seem to be a breach of their duties to the landlord for which the tenant is not liable, it seems to me..

 

[bell]

GDH has been taken over by Turner PMS, and from what I have found out they are not liable to give me my Deposit back, my Landlord is.... Unless we have a case to take GDH/Jupiter Limited or PMS to Small Claims Court, but due to the who administartion thing I have been told we won't get any money out of it.

 

[Gramaisc]

When I say 'GDH' I mean whoever is acting as your landlord's agent at the moment. In the position that you have described it seems to me that the tenant is fairly safe, as long as the landlord honours the 'final rent rebate to cover the deposit' agreement, which seems likely. You both 'win' out of that - you get your deposit back ( and slightly earlier ) and the landlord doesn't have to fork out extra money now to lodge a safe deposit for the future. The landlord is the party with the real problems in this case....

 

[Vicky]

Hi Bell, sounds like you could have a case since you paid the money and they failed to pass it onto the correct people within 14 days. They owed lots of people money (LL, tenants, tradesmen etc) and they will not have all just accepted that GDH have 'no access' to the account. If you have kept your receipt that will really help prove your point.
The only problem you may have, not paying your last month and a halfs rent, is that Jupiter take about 10% of the rent you pay as their 'fees' before passing the remainder on to the LL, so for example if you pay £495 rent, Jupiter take about £50 and the landlord gets the other £445. So, jupiter may get angry at not getting their money, however after they took your money, knowing the situation the company was in and have not tried to help you get it back, the least they could do is let this £50 go.
I would definately attempt to get the money back tho, we have been waiting for 6 weeks now for a decision to be made by hte TDS but it will be worth it if we get the money. If we didnt, I would certainly take legal advice and attempt to take them to court, but this is mainly because our LL has not helped us at all, least yours is cooperating!

Maybe he could put something in writing, confirming what you have discussed, so that you are happy you have a guarantee, and he cannot change his mind at a later date. Good luck!

 

[tek-monkey]

I say **** them and see them in court, but thats easy to say.

 

[bell]

Thanks for the advice Vicky.... Our rent is paid straight to the Landlord not to GDH. They were helping the Landlord find a tenant and to write up teh agreements.

It took me weeks and lots of research to provide to our Landlord that it is his problem to solve this matter, and then he finally went to see his solictior and he confirmed what I had been trying to tell him.
the website below was very helpful, it maybe able to giev you some more advice.

http://www.mydeposits.co.uk/tenants/tenant.htm

Thanks

 

[Vault_girl]

I would say the best thing you can do is get your landlord to set up a DPS account and put money into the account. I would not go via the "don't pay last month and a half's rent" way. For one your deposit has to be protected by law so the landlord should register some money to you, also it covers in the event the landlord is not able to pay you back for any reason at the end of your tenancy. The landlord MAY have a chance in small claims but like you say due to the company going under there is only so much which can be done.

 

[*Rich*]

Hi everyone!

I paid a deposit to GDH when moving into the property I let, but this was back in 2004, so the money will not be in any protection schemes unfortunately.

I rung the number I have for GDH and the 'new' company are even using the same phone number.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get this money back, or is it as good as gone?

There was talk of me taking Jupita Ltd (or Daniel McCarthy, not sure) to small claims court, but this is unlikely to ever result in payment I feel.

I will call Citizen's Advice, but thought I would see if there is any more advice from this forum.

I did hear that the new company is still owned/run by the same person as GDH was, sad isn't it?! Legal theft!

Thanks,
Rich.

 

[tek-monkey]

Go in and shout loudly, always my favourite strategy!

 

[Vicky]

Hi Rich, as I understand it, the current/new owner of Jupita (formely GDH) is the man who originally set the company up as GDH! He later sold it to another man, who ran it into the ground over the past ten or so years, so it is very dodgey and I wouldnt be surprised if it changed hands again! Definately seek legal advice, you have to go to citizens advice at least since it is free. I would also go into Jupita first and kick up a big fuss, threaten legal action but beware since the take over they have installed CCTV! Think a few too many people went in angry! And, isnt the landlord responsible, and Jupita are just a 'go between?'
Vault girl is a good person to ask, she knows everything about renting! Good luck.

 

[Vicky]

Just to update, I have just found out that the liquidators trying to recover debts that GDH has is also trying to get money from Turner PMS since they owe money too (also heard dan mcarthey is a company director of turner pms?!?) so act fast if you want any money since the liquidator is giving up on the case because there isn't enough money to pay him and so many debts still outstanding! Can give you the liquidators number if you think it will help, or at least you can register a claim?

 

[*Rich*]

Hi, thanks.

I got a letter today from Begbies Traynor, the company dealing with the liquidation(?), and as far as I can gather it basically says they don't have enough money to pursue the claim, and the original letter from them says they will not be helping with the return of tenant's deposits, so I can't see much joy there.

I doubt they will write me a cheque out just because I've gone in shouting.

Think I will just have to convince my Landlord that it is his responsibility to return the deposit, because he made it perfectly clear that in his opinion it was me who was set to lose the money.

 

[Vicky]

Yes convince the landlord then! It is so unfair, and you sound like you have been a tenant for a very long time, you would think he would want to help! Have you also received a letter from turner asking you to change your direct debit to another new account? I got one about 10 days ago, think its the third time now! Somethings going on.

 

[*Rich*]

No I haven't, because thankfully GDH only found us as tenants and we pay the rent direct to the landlord.

Very unfair as you say, always the way isn't it?!

 

[tek-monkey]

I doubt they will write me a cheque out just because I've gone in shouting.

If you go in often enough, both really annoying the poor sod you target and making potential customers wary of dealing with them, you can become cheaper to pay off than persuade to stop. This is a convenient position to be in.

 

[ATJ]

Yes convince the landlord then! It is so unfair, and you sound like you have been a tenant for a very long time, you would think he would want to help! Have you also received a letter from turner asking you to change your direct debit to another new account? I got one about 10 days ago, think its the third time now! Somethings going on.

We have received that letter and refused point blank to change accounts again. The staff member we spoke to was completely unaware of the latest account change and didn't know what it was for. We have now changed our payment system so we pay rent direct to the landlord and only give GHD/Turner their 'cut.
It was very easy to set up, as I'm sure Turner have become resigned to doing it this way with so many angry and distrustful tenants.

 

[tekkers]

Did this ever make the press?

It's so wrong it's untrue.

 

[Gramaisc]

Did this ever make the press?

It's so wrong it's untrue.

A Newsletter article - and an earlier one.

 

[Vault_girl]

There has always been a cctv camera in the office for many years. Whether it's actually connected to anything...
Last time I was able to check a few weeks ago Mr McCarthy was still the sole director of Turner PMS. I can't make any comment about now.

With regards to your deposit issues Rich my knowledge of unprotected deposits is limited I'm afraid. Technically it IS the landlords's responsibility to pay back the deposit but since it was pre deposit schemes and was unprotected it will be more difficult for you to get it back. Before making deposit schemes compulsory the landlord had the say over how much of the deposit should be returned to the tenant and if the tenant was not happy with this they would have to take the landlord to the small claims court. Under normal return of deposit circumstances I would tell you to go straight to the SCC but since the deposit has been lost by the agent I really do not know how it would turn out. The court may vote in your favour or they may be lenient on the landlord due to the circumstances. If you can get some advice from citizens advice (I bet the one in Stafford is becoming excellent at giving advice on tenant's deposits by now!) I would see what they say first and maybe get some legal advice. It could turn out to be more costly for you to chase it unfortunately.

And just as a note regarding the "earlier one" article link above - That's not necessarily a fair article. The article is pre deposit scheme and as said above the landlord decides how much should be returned to the tenants. The tenants should have been taking the landlord to small claims (which they were probably advised) instead of going to the newspapers moaning about the agent. Also did anyone else think their utilities seemed low? AND... in reality it s actually quite costly to get properties cleaned and the landlord or agent DOES NOT have to allow the tenant to re-enter the property if their cleaning is not up to scratch once they have handed their keys over. A lot of tenants seem to think they have a right to go back in if things aren't right but they don't. You may be given the chance to choose the professionals to clean/fix problems BUT if these professionals aren't up to standard (i.e. if you go with someone cheap and they do a bad job) then the landlord has the right to send their own choice in which will again be deducted from the deposit so you can end up paying out twice. If you don't want to get caught out at check out then you should make sure you do the best cleaning job you can (or hire your own professional cleaners) and make sure it is all spotless so nothing can ever be said. Take pictures too to show how you left everything. It's also advisable to take your own pictures of the property when you move in (before you move your stuff in!) so you can show before and after should cleaning issues come back once you have moved out. It's also why you should always be extremely picky when updating your inventory at the beginning of a tenancy. If it's not on the inventory it's going to come back to you. Simple as. I don't mean to sound mean but when you stress to new tenants to make sure they are COMPLETELY happy with an inventory when they return it because if something isn't on it it will come back to the tenants, then when they move out they say "it's not on the inventory but it was like that when we moved in" and expect to be let off you die a little inside. Yes the inventory is provided and checked but it is the tenant's responsibility to make sure the agent/landlord is aware of any issues as soon as they are aware of them. Believe me an agent will be much happier if you return an inventory covered in notes rather than a blank one. Even just tick everything to show you have checked what is there is correct.
oops rant :S I just cannot stress how important it is for tenants to check inventories and return them. and then USE the inventory when they leave to make sure all is back as it was! If you lose your copy the agent can give you another.

Good luck with your deposit Rich, please let us know how it goes!