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Stafford shops closing - Turning into a ghost town?
- Thread starter Goldstyle Limousines
- Start date
HopesDad
Don't feed the troll
I guess moving to a smaller shop was a last ditch attempt to keep the business afloat.
Problem is, that street is doomed now, since the car park and the library closed very few people have any reason to go down there.
Wormella
Well-Known Forumite
Hasn't it moved to hmv's old space in the guildhall, under a new name?
Ye the smaller shop was a short term move as a to let sign went up the week they moved in.
salter street and eastgate and market street aren't doomed at all and how dare you disrespect the businesses there just because of your negativity
Hopes dad.
Once the the car park is opened and those units are occupied ( and they will be) this area won't be an issue, or someone should tell the interested parties who have 3 empty units under offer in that location that they must change their mind as Hopes dad predicts the future apparently. .
salter street and eastgate and market street aren't doomed at all and how dare you disrespect the businesses there just because of your negativity
Hopes dad.
Once the the car park is opened and those units are occupied ( and they will be) this area won't be an issue, or someone should tell the interested parties who have 3 empty units under offer in that location that they must change their mind as Hopes dad predicts the future apparently. .
Really?
Well-Known Forumite
The good people of Stafford control the town. If they don't spend their money in the shops they will close, it's as simple as that. Equally if the shops do not deliver what the people want, people will not shop there. The Town Planners should make it easy for people to get in and spend their money. Once the shops are gone, they are gone and it's no good saying "it's a shame". Every empty shop is an indicator that someone believed in Stafford, decided to try and bring the Stafford people what they believed they wanted (hopefully through the market research they did,) and had their dreams shattered by an uncaring public and Council.
Unless and until an "internet sales tax" is introduced to give the High Street some equity in the market place, shops will continue to close.
Unless and until an "internet sales tax" is introduced to give the High Street some equity in the market place, shops will continue to close.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Gareth, who are the 3 parties moving into these shops?
Really? - I can't agree on an Internet sales tax. I do most of my shopping in the evening, and many people simply can't shop 9-5. It was fine when only one parent worked but society changed and shops didn't. I know many people who leave for work by half 7 and return around half 6, they can't physically use the shops most days. Then of course most high Street shops also sell online, so are they doing themselves out of business? I don't see how taxing the Internet helps, it won't make more people use the shops.
Really? - I can't agree on an Internet sales tax. I do most of my shopping in the evening, and many people simply can't shop 9-5. It was fine when only one parent worked but society changed and shops didn't. I know many people who leave for work by half 7 and return around half 6, they can't physically use the shops most days. Then of course most high Street shops also sell online, so are they doing themselves out of business? I don't see how taxing the Internet helps, it won't make more people use the shops.
Really?
Well-Known Forumite
What it will do is make it fairer- Bricks and Mortar shops are taxed through the Business Rates - basically a tax on the expected profit they will achieve due to being on the High Street. They get absolutely nothing in return for the payment of this tax. This means their overheads are much higher. Whilst some internet operations pay business rates, because they are almost always tucked away on a trading estate and have no visitors, their business rates are minimal. Most Internet traders pay no business rates (and many don't even declare they are running a business- it's easy to hide behind a keyboard). Lower overheads mean lower prices. The government have increased the threshold for Business Rates next year at the same time as increasing most High Streets Rateable Value, so actually not helping much at all. They won't do away with business rates so the only way to make business fairer is to increase the costs for the internet sellers. The treasury will rake in a fortune and the internet prices will rise a little. Once you add the Postage and packing to an internet price it will probably be around the same price as a shop. That makes the competition fair and purely about making it easier to buy and service. Opening Hours is an easy thing to change if everything else is more equal
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Yet rates are based on location, and shops with a higher footfall get more trade. Wouldn't the equivalent to be taxing advertising online that brings shoppers in? A real shop in an out of the way location can do very well if its customers know where to go.
Besides which, do we really need a 'real' shop to buy items we can't take home with us? Washing machines, tumble driers etc. are logical to order online, not in a shop. I don't have time to use real shops most days, other than for food. I prefer to browse online and order things at 3 in the morning, taxing me for doing this won't help any high street shops as I still won't use them, it'll just make me more likely to order from abroad and bypass the taxes (assuming the pound ever recovers).
The Hawk
Well-Known Forumite
I would suggest that one of the main problems, for town centre businesses, are high rental costs, more often than not, driven by faceless companies based in places such as Jersey and the Cayman Islands. These high costs, in turn, push up land values which, in turn, are the basis for rateable values and business rates.
As far as the Internet is concerned, then businesses need to adapt and change. There needs to be a paradigm shift, reflecting the changing nature of the game. Hospitality / social interaction and consumables are potential growth areas. There are also goods that people tend to want to look at / try on before they buy, but such businesses will need to build in to their business models the ever increasing number of people who try and then go away an buy cheaper on the Internet.
I do not believe that we can tax our way out of these changing dynamics. We have to embrace them and adapt. Ultimately, town centres won't die, though some are struggling through this period of change. A new type of town centre will emerge, with more of a village feel to it, A town centre of coffee shops, cafe bars, restaurants and leisure facilities, backed up by a smaller core of, so called, traditional shops. Oh, and a town centre with more people living in it. In that respect, I think Stafford is heading in the right direction, although I accept there is still much to be done.
As far as the Internet is concerned, then businesses need to adapt and change. There needs to be a paradigm shift, reflecting the changing nature of the game. Hospitality / social interaction and consumables are potential growth areas. There are also goods that people tend to want to look at / try on before they buy, but such businesses will need to build in to their business models the ever increasing number of people who try and then go away an buy cheaper on the Internet.
I do not believe that we can tax our way out of these changing dynamics. We have to embrace them and adapt. Ultimately, town centres won't die, though some are struggling through this period of change. A new type of town centre will emerge, with more of a village feel to it, A town centre of coffee shops, cafe bars, restaurants and leisure facilities, backed up by a smaller core of, so called, traditional shops. Oh, and a town centre with more people living in it. In that respect, I think Stafford is heading in the right direction, although I accept there is still much to be done.
HopesDad
Don't feed the troll
Half the shops in that area are boarded up, the others are generally niche stores that attract occasional visitors rather than regular clientele (several estate agents, hearing aid shop, etc). The car park shows no sign of being opened, even though it would be a 20 minute job to remove the temporary fencing. Another example of a weak council being held to ransom by developers.
I am not being negative, just realistic. The problem is that, in Stafford currently, it is very difficult to be realistic without appearing negative.
I am not being negative, just realistic. The problem is that, in Stafford currently, it is very difficult to be realistic without appearing negative.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Seems mad to put obstacles in the way of shoppers. None of the new parking spaces near M&S show on google yet either, so it looks like waterfront is the only place at that end of town.
alphagamma
Well-Known Forumite
As per usual, the council claim the empty store/carpark isn't their fault, but who was it that entered into deals that resulted in millions of quid being diverted to Jersey and the Cayman Isles? Welcome to LXBford.
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
Well it isn't their fault is it.
None of the shops are boarded up they are just empty.
this side of town can easily flourish if north walls is opened and the right shops move in.
saying this area is doomed is a non factual statement at this time just as stating it was houghton's last ditch attempt to remain open when in fact it had moved to a larger premises elsewhere.
I won't even make much of an attempt on PPPPPs it is the council's fault. 1 he thinks north walls is owned by the council 2 when corrected still blames the council for bringing investment into the town 3. Blames council for not doing enough in the town.
I guess this is just the type of person who complained 5 years ago the town is dying and it needs investment and bigger names.
The idiocrasy of some huh lol
this side of town can easily flourish if north walls is opened and the right shops move in.
saying this area is doomed is a non factual statement at this time just as stating it was houghton's last ditch attempt to remain open when in fact it had moved to a larger premises elsewhere.
I won't even make much of an attempt on PPPPPs it is the council's fault. 1 he thinks north walls is owned by the council 2 when corrected still blames the council for bringing investment into the town 3. Blames council for not doing enough in the town.
I guess this is just the type of person who complained 5 years ago the town is dying and it needs investment and bigger names.
The idiocrasy of some huh lol
HopesDad
Don't feed the troll
The shops may not be boarded up but they are nevertheless empty, which was my point.
I accept that the area COULD flourish IF the car park was opened and IF the RIGHT shops move in.
But the point is that the car park is NOT open (or likely to be any time soon so it seems), and shops have NOT moved in.
My comments the current situation (which has changed little, if at all, for at least a year) rather than someone's fantasy of what MIGHT happen one day. A prospective shopper visiting the town for the first time would not go to that area and think "this place is run down but it could be made nice one day ", they will think "this place is run down, I will go elsewhere, like Telford ".
As for North Walls, it WAS owned by the council until a couple of years ago, but they sold it to a developer on the promise of new stores, just to make a quick buck. Now it has turned round and bitten them on their corporate bum because they have no shops, no customers, no car park and, it seems, no backbone to force the developers into action.
I realise, Gareth, that you will defend the council to the end, but the harsh reality is that the town IS dying, it DOES need development, and the council is failing all of us by not providing leadership to make that happen.
The 'star attraction' in Stafford is a branch of Primark, a company that uses foreign child labour to produce tat and sells it at rock bottom prices without bothering the tax man. Says it all really.
I accept that the area COULD flourish IF the car park was opened and IF the RIGHT shops move in.
But the point is that the car park is NOT open (or likely to be any time soon so it seems), and shops have NOT moved in.
My comments the current situation (which has changed little, if at all, for at least a year) rather than someone's fantasy of what MIGHT happen one day. A prospective shopper visiting the town for the first time would not go to that area and think "this place is run down but it could be made nice one day ", they will think "this place is run down, I will go elsewhere, like Telford ".
As for North Walls, it WAS owned by the council until a couple of years ago, but they sold it to a developer on the promise of new stores, just to make a quick buck. Now it has turned round and bitten them on their corporate bum because they have no shops, no customers, no car park and, it seems, no backbone to force the developers into action.
I realise, Gareth, that you will defend the council to the end, but the harsh reality is that the town IS dying, it DOES need development, and the council is failing all of us by not providing leadership to make that happen.
The 'star attraction' in Stafford is a branch of Primark, a company that uses foreign child labour to produce tat and sells it at rock bottom prices without bothering the tax man. Says it all really.
Jonah
Spouting nonsense since the day I learned to talk
Stafford has been struggling since the bankers decided their own wealth was more important than the country's well being (along with most of the country).
Having said that, investment has taken place in Stafford with the new Riverside and the ghost Kingsmead development. The fact that Morrisons decided to be arseholes and not actually take possession of the store is not SCC or SBC's fault (despite how much we all like to blame them).
But both councils do need to share the blame for the current state of the town centre. SCC for allowing Severn Trent to cripple the town for a couple of years with road closures and SBC for what seems like a lack of a coherent strategy to get new retailers into the town.
Having said that, investment has taken place in Stafford with the new Riverside and the ghost Kingsmead development. The fact that Morrisons decided to be arseholes and not actually take possession of the store is not SCC or SBC's fault (despite how much we all like to blame them).
But both councils do need to share the blame for the current state of the town centre. SCC for allowing Severn Trent to cripple the town for a couple of years with road closures and SBC for what seems like a lack of a coherent strategy to get new retailers into the town.