Buying your dead pig from Tesco or Sainsbury?

[kyoto49]

This thread is quite pleasant now, everyone behaving, well done class.

...some people on holiday?

I love animals and i love to eat animals, i really am torn between the two, and that's where i sit, trying my best to believe/trust the providers and suppliers of animal products (like a good percentage of folk), only so much i can do though, but at the very least i am trying.

If you wish to eat meat, then just try and buy high welfare free range meat..........AVOID THE SUPERMARKETS.

It's not hard to put welfare over cost, choose a local farm that prioritises and takes pride in their animals welfare. Something like this which is sold at Mottersheads on Bodmin Avenue, Canalside Farm shop in Great Haywood, plus butchers in Stone and Eccleshall:

http://www.packingtonfreerange.co.uk/healthy-pigs-poultry/free-range-pork/

http://www.packingtonfreerange.co.uk/healthy-pigs-poultry/free-range-chicken/

This is the only way meat should be produced. Chicken and Pork how it used to taste. But the only way this will become the norm is if the very powerful consumer pound is spent on this type of meat. I bet a penny to a pound that if shoppers stopped buying their meat in the Supermarkets and bought free range from the farm that animal welfare would improve exponentially and very quickly. No consumer demand, no profit. Supermarkets would be forced to demand high welfare meat production or lose millions of pounds.

Not sure who it's attributable to, but there's a saying that goes something like; Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

[Jonah]

The problem at the moment is the current economic climate may not allow for everyone to buy more expensive meats. I know people may say that this "excuse" is one that can be used at any time but there are a lot of families who are in severe financial straits and can't afford to shop around.

We shop at Mottersheads occasionally and always end up spending about double the amount on meat compared to what we do at a supermarket.

And one question, why is Prince Harry on the Packington chicken page?

 

[1JKz]

I digress, i only ever eat meat i (kinda) know where it's come from, and then i'm totally 100% in the hands of the suppliers, unless i see the animal living in my back yard til it's slaughtered none of us know for sure how any animal's life has been treated.

When i'm in a pub i have to see particular wording (in regards welfare) on the menu for me to pick the chicken or whatever it may be, and if i don't i go native, veggie option all the way.

This has proven to be very difficult indeed on many occasion and explaining my part-time veggyism to people is a massive ball ache, just picking a veggie option gets the classic '...what's up with ya' scenario.

I go without on many occasions, meat i mean.

Just now, in a sandwich shop, i had to go for a philly light with cucumber sandwich (yeah yeah i know where philly comes from!!) instead of the - what looked amazing - Cajun chicken DELUXE!

If i didn't, i'd have gone without for lunch, so there's only so much we can do, really there is.

Right, this post is far to long for anyone to concentrate on...

 

[kyoto49]

The problem at the moment is the current economic climate may not allow for everyone to buy more expensive meats. I know people may say that this "excuse" is one that can be used at any time but there are a lot of families who are in severe financial straits and can't afford to shop around.

We shop at Mottersheads occasionally and always end up spending about double the amount on meat compared to what we do at a supermarket.

And one question, why is Prince Harry on the Packington chicken page?

And I am one of those struggling families. It's an easy answer really, eat less but better quality meat. The human body isn't designed to process meat at every meal. Quality meat 2 or 3 times a week is much better for humans, the environment and the animals you eat,....... and the cash strapped families! Replace masses of meat with healthier and cheaper alternatives. Instead of having dodgy cheap mince in chili have a veggie chili and use the money saved on the mince for a quality cut of meat for the next meal.................you get my gist here

Prince Harry? No idea!!

 

[Jonah]

And I am one of those struggling families. It's an easy answer really, eat less but better quality meat. The human body isn't designed to process meat at every meal. Quality meat 2 or 3 times a week is much better for humans, the environment and the animals you eat,....... and the cash strapped families! Replace masses of meat with healthier and cheaper alternatives. Instead of having dodgy cheap mince in chili have a veggie chili and use the money saved on the mince for a quality cut of meat for the next meal.................you get my gist here

Prince Harry? No idea!!

Yep I agree. The trouble would come with real 'traditionalists' who don't think a meal is complete without meat and two veg - I'm not describing myself there!!

 

[henryscat]

The problem at the moment is the current economic climate may not allow for everyone to buy more expensive meats. I know people may say that this "excuse" is one that can be used at any time but there are a lot of families who are in severe financial straits and can't afford to shop around.

We shop at Mottersheads occasionally and always end up spending about double the amount on meat compared to what we do at a supermarket.

And one question, why is Prince Harry on the Packington chicken page?

I wondered how long it would take for someone to wheel out the "I can't afford to buy free range/organic/better welfare meat" argument.

Nobody has a "right" to cheap meat. Nobody "needs" meat - consumption of it is not necessary in the first place, so not being able to afford more expensive meat doesn't justify the purchase of factory farmed meat. If you're really in financial dire straits then not buying meat or dairy in the first place is better for your wallet.

 

[henryscat]

Yep I agree. The trouble would come with real 'traditionalists' who don't think a meal is complete without meat and two veg - I'm not describing myself there!!

Traditionally though, meat consumption wasn't very high. It is in recent decades that consumption has rocketed and people seem to think they need meat three times a day, seven days a week.

 

[henryscat]

And whilst there's a lot of discussion on the welfare of farmed animals that get killed for meat, the dairy industry also has a very poor welfare record.

 

[henryscat]

So the history of domestication is known, you say? I'd always thought that it was open to a lot of theory and conjecture - perhaps you know of someone who could give an eye-witness account?

Does vegetarianism extend lifespans to 10,000 years?

Eye witness accounts are but one source of evidence that explains our history. There are other sources of evidence. Archaeological evidence, for example.

 

[henryscat]

If i may be permitted to dwell a while on the notion of 'enslavement' - is the dog 'enslaved'?

The thread is primarily about the enslavement of farmed animals in factory farm conditions, so not sure what the relevance of the dog is? Nobody has yet countered the statement that farmed animals are enslaved, nor has anyone even attempted to defend factory farming (going back to the OP) which perhaps suggests a few guilty consciences.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

The thread is primarily about the enslavement of farmed animals in factory farm conditions, so not sure what the relevance of the dog is? Nobody has yet countered the statement that farmed animals are enslaved, nor has anyone even attempted to defend factory farming (going back to the OP) which perhaps suggests a few guilty consciences.

Perhaps people will answer your questions as and when you are prepared to answer the questions of others. I've switched off on this thread, not out of any sense of guilt but out of sheer boredom with your "selective" debating. I dare say others have done likewise.

 

[Jonah]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to wheel out the "I can't afford to buy free range/organic/better welfare meat" argument.

Nobody has a "right" to cheap meat. Nobody "needs" meat - consumption of it is not necessary in the first place, so not being able to afford more expensive meat doesn't justify the purchase of factory farmed meat. If you're really in financial dire straits then not buying meat or dairy in the first place is better for your wallet.

That seems like an angry reply to me.

I never mentioned "the right to meat" in my post and I certainly never said that lack of money justified buying factory farmed meat. I was talking about the very real problem of severe financial restriction which affect millions of people in this country but you obviously think that if you are forced to live on a very limited budget then you shouldn't be allowed to eat meat.

Blinkered indeed.

 

[tek-monkey]

A lot of people simply don't know how to cook either. I suspect teaching that and basic finances at school would help immensely, but I was lucky enough to grow up in a relatively poor financial situation and helped out with the cooking when younger so avoided a lot of those problems. I was amazed at uni how utterly dependant some people still were on parents that now lived miles away.

 

[Spelunker]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to wheel out the "I can't afford to buy free range/organic/better welfare meat" argument.

Nobody has a "right" to cheap meat. Nobody "needs" meat - consumption of it is not necessary in the first place, so not being able to afford more expensive meat doesn't justify the purchase of factory farmed meat. If you're really in financial dire straits then not buying meat or dairy in the first place is better for your wallet.

Bloody hell since when did vegetarianism become a proselytising religion.

 

[tek-monkey]

Every belief structure has its extremes, just compare a normal christian to the Westboro Baptists.

 

[Mikinton]

Perhaps people will answer your questions as and when you are prepared to answer the questions of others. I've switched off on this thread, not out of any sense of guilt but out of sheer boredom with your "selective" debating. I dare say others have done likewise.

You'll find that HC can be quite selective about where he fights his battles.

I must admit to quite enjoying this thread, and being more than a tad bemused. I'm currently on holiday in Greece where the food is fantastic and such thoughts about what I'm eating couldn't be further from my mind. Still, it's back to blighty next week and all that agonising about what to put in my trolley at asda or tescos. As well as getting my dead lamb, my dead chicken, my dead turkey and my dead cow from mottersheads, maybe I should get my dead pig from there as well.

 

[Withnail]

The thread is primarily about the enslavement of farmed animals in factory farm conditions, so not sure what the relevance of the dog is?

It was really in relation to where -

Sheep, cows, pigs and chickens would all be capable of surviving in the wild - just like they did before humans enslaved them.

- which, it has to be said, does not appear to be primarily about the enslavement of farmed animals in factory farm conditions, but does seem to propose a theory of animal domestication that is in no way certain.

You are right, of course, it is of little relevance - i was just interested is all.

P.S. I am only too aware of other sources of evidence, ta, especially archaeological ones - i have been, thankfully, kiln-free for some weeks now.

 

[tek-monkey]

Horses are enslaved, so are sled dogs, and their domestication is a known factor for centuries. In fact the 'good old days' often hark back to the times animal enslavement was preferred to machines. I'm pretty sure a shire horse never wanted to pull crap for a living, and the Inuits sure as chuff weren't pulling their own sleds for the last millennium.

So yeah, there is a known history of animal enslavement since the first day someone realised hunting with dogs or hawks was a good idea. I'm pretty sure animal herding was a factor way before any of this.

 

[monkey bidness]

Perhaps people will answer your questions as and when you are prepared to answer the questions of others. I've switched off on this thread, not out of any sense of guilt but out of sheer boredom with your "selective" debating. I dare say others have done likewise.

The word 'sophistry' comes to mind when I Read HC's posts. I am genuinely baffled by why so many people rise to the bait. If you just ignore him I am sure he will go away. Onanistic is another word which fits these postings.

 

[Withnail]

So yeah, there is a known history of animal enslavement...

The contrary is quite possibly the case.

Certainly the partnership between man and hound is ridiculously ancient, pre-dating our involvement with any other animal by millenia - put simply it was an arrangement that was mutually beneficial to both.

It is equally likely that those early domesticates such as sheep and goats etc had an element of 'choice' in the matter - food was scarce and predators were fierce and many. It is easy enough to picture those animals as being the original 'benefits scroungers' - living with these strange ape-like creatures meant ample pasture + extra rations in the form of agricultural waste + security from fings-with-fangs, what's not to like? There was an ultimate price to pay, of course, but the immediate benefits would appear obvious.

This is all theoretical/conjectural, and would have no way of making it into the archaeological record, but there is no 'known history' of enslavement, which is why i mention it. And, in fairness, i didn't start it...

Factory farming is quite obviously all f*cked up, however, and i do all that i can to avoid meat produced in this way.