Buying your dead pig from Tesco or Sainsbury?

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
So yeah, there is a known history of animal enslavement since the first day someone realised hunting with dogs or hawks was a good idea. I'm pretty sure animal herding was a factor way before any of this.

Yes, I would say there is a known history - starting about 11,000 years ago. The first part does relate to herding where those who hunted wild sheep and goats started to follow a particular herd. It then developed into capturing those herds and controlling them.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
That seems like an angry reply to me.

I never mentioned "the right to meat" in my post and I certainly never said that lack of money justified buying factory farmed meat.

You didn't mention those words, fair point, but what I was saying is reflective of an underlying attitude in a lot of society that there is some kind of entitlement to cheap food (which has other non-financial costs).

I was talking about the very real problem of severe financial restriction which affect millions of people in this country but you obviously think that if you are forced to live on a very limited budget then you shouldn't be allowed to eat meat.

I'm saying that having a restricted budget doesn't justify making choices such as buying factory farmed meat, which isn't the same as "shouldn't be allowed". People buying cheap meat also have a tendency to be wasteful with it too. Tek mentioned in a previous post about people's ability to cook and this is also a factor - buying ready made or processed food is more expensive than cooking properly from scratch. I would hazard a guess that there are those who think people on a limited budget should not smoke or buy alcohol as neither are necessary, equally meat isn't necessary.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
The contrary is quite possibly the case.

Certainly the partnership between man and hound is ridiculously ancient, pre-dating our involvement with any other animal by millenia - put simply it was an arrangement that was mutually beneficial to both.

However, for the most part are not treated in the same way as farmed animals. Although, humans now imprison thousands of beagles and inflict suffering upon them in the name of so-called research.

It is equally likely that those early domesticates such as sheep and goats etc had an element of 'choice' in the matter - food was scarce and predators were fierce and many. It is easy enough to picture those animals as being the original 'benefits scroungers' - living with these strange ape-like creatures meant ample pasture + extra rations in the form of agricultural waste + security from fings-with-fangs, what's not to like? There was an ultimate price to pay, of course, but the immediate benefits would appear obvious.

It is clear that "domestication" did not occur on the basis of an equal relationship. Domestication was purely for human benefit. There's plenty not to like: castration, hobbling, branding, ear cropping, whips, prods, chains, collars, mutilation of calves so they cannot suckle. There is clear evidence of humans exerting domination over animals, so have to disagree very strongly about animals having an element of choice - they did not. The very fact that animals have been considered property in law since at least Roman times also points to animals not having an element of choice.

This is all theoretical/conjectural, and would have no way of making it into the archaeological record, but there is no 'known history' of enslavement, which is why i mention it. And, in fairness, i didn't start it...

Implements used in farming animals would make it into the archaeological record - unless they were very cleverly hidden throughout history.

Factory farming is quite obviously all f*cked up, however, and i do all that i can to avoid meat produced in this way.

Indeed it is and glad to hear it.
 

Spelunker

Well-Known Forumite
Right - off to the supermarket to buy the dead pig followed by some dead cow and maybe some dead lamb. I might even purchase some ground up dead pig that has been squeezed into its own intestine.
I will also pick up some enslaved vegetables and some incarcerated Yorkshire puddings, heck I might even purchase some captured apples that have been fermented and forced into a bottle.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Yep got the milk

You didn't say how you got the milk...... :)

man_cow_470_470x300.jpg
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Yes, I would say there is a known history - starting about 11,000 years ago. The first part does relate to herding where those who hunted wild sheep and goats started to follow a particular herd. It then developed into capturing those herds and controlling them.

Except that what the archaeological record does show is that cereal cultivation pre-dates animal husbandry. Why go to the trouble of planting crops if you are just going to leave them in pursuit of a 'particular herd'?
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Except that what the archaeological record does show is that cereal cultivation pre-dates animal husbandry. Why go to the trouble of planting crops if you are just going to leave them in pursuit of a 'particular herd'?
Depends what part of the world you're talking.
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Depends what part of the world you're talking.

Does it, now?

That would suggest that you know that your 'model' of animal 'enslavement' is geospecific.

Which would further suggest that 'your' notion of 'enslavement' cannot be applied with as broad-a-brush as you would presumably like to apply.

Which in turn would lead to the conclusion of the cocking of snooks. :p
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Does it, now?

That would suggest that you know that your 'model' of animal 'enslavement' is geospecific.

Which would further suggest that 'your' notion of 'enslavement' cannot be applied with as broad-a-brush as you would presumably like to apply.

There's two things here - one is the when/where it began and the second is situation in the present day. The present day situation is one of widespread enslavement.

Which in turn would lead to the conclusion of the cocking of snooks. :p

I'm reminded of a Red Dward scene where Rimmer tries his Esparanto...
 

Trumpet

Well-Known Forumite
Absolutely.
All organic or free range farmers say that meat reared in this way is happier and therefore tenderer and tastier than intensively farmed beasts. So as the ASDA pork in question was indeed very tender and tasty I'll make the assumption and stick with it.
 
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